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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if 16 year olds need a letter of consent to travel overseas without parents, then this should be publicised?

167 replies

MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 22:49

DD1, who is a few months short of 17, recently went on a walking holiday in Turkey with a friend and her family. I checked the gov.uk website before she left, and also that of the airline, and neither mentioned the need for a letter of consent from parents to travel (the airline said it was needed for under 16s).

DD1 was held up by the airline, who called Immigration, who gave her the nth degree questioning, finally letting her board, when she showed them an email from me, giving details of her travel insurance. On return to UK, she got held up for even longer, being questioned about where she had been, what she had done, with the IO telling her that she should have a letter from her parents giving permission to travel, and that she "would exceptionally land her on this occasion, but next time to remember that she needed a letter." DD1 was quite upset by the whole experience.

Is this a new thing, and if so, where is it publicised, that you need a letter? What if I had let DD1 get married - would she have needed a parental letter to go on her honeymoon with her new husband? I understand that they are feeling a bit sore after the recent "jihadi brides" going to Syria, but DD1 in no way fits this profile, was wearing all her walking gear to travel, and was going nowhere near the border with Syria.

OP posts:
AnkhMorporkAssassinsGuild · 19/04/2015 23:40

DS almost 17, spent some time in Portugal over the new year, travelled with an almost 18 year old friend, on his return to the UK immigration asked him where his letter giving him permission to travel was, this was on the way back into to the country - not out of it.

I took my 24 year old nephew to France for the day last week, coming home after a great day, we hit immigration at Calais, my very obviously 24 year old nephew was asked if he & I were related, and how, as we have different surnames. Which I thought was a little odd given his age etc. but maybe that was his chance to tell them I was bringing him back against his will etc

The following day a friend of mine had the riot act read to her at Calais again, trying to bring a young person back into the country (that she'd had no problems leaving with) for not having written permission from the child's parents. The words Child Trafficking were mentioned.

Again no problems leaving the country just bringing her back in.

So I don't know if it is something immigration are particularly hot on but you're not alone in having had it happen to you, but it's not just restricted to female travellers.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:42

Greeneggs - as there are currently no immigration checks on leaving the UK (they are bringing them back, but have delayed until after the Easter holidays), whose responsibility would it be, presumably the airline's?

And I think the dimmest immigration officer in the world should be able to differentiate between a potential jihadi bride and a family going on/coming back from a walking holiday, with their daughter's friend coming along too.

OP posts:
greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 23:43

Maybe they were worried that she was being brought back by some random people who were planning on getting her to be a servant in their home/a prostitute/farm worker/drugs related. Any number of things really. I think its probably a good thing that they were overly cautious.

greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 23:46

I don't know who is responsible. It doesn't seem like a big deal really. She wasn't held in a detention centre or a cell. She was asked a few questions and told to take a letter next time.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:47

But why did they refuse to contact DH, then, greeneggs, who was waiting to meet DD1? She has the right of abode in UK - there was nothing they could have done to stop her being landed.

OP posts:
Pasithea · 19/04/2015 23:51

I think op that you have to accept that this is now the way of the world. Had your daughter decided once there to leave for the border. Whose fault would it have been.

If she had been kidnapped and trafficked and this unfortunately does happen. Whose fault would it be.

Be grateful she was stopped and checked.

ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged · 19/04/2015 23:52

But how would they know she was coming back from the waking holiday without talking to her?

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:53

She was apparently held up for nearly half an hour, greeneggs. That's more than a few questions on where have you been, who are these people, can you make sure your parents give you a letter next time. But perhaps there was someone in "refusal shoes" behind the family in the queue, and this is why the IO took so long with DD1, as she didn't want to spend half the night on a difficult case.

No, it's not a big deal in the wider scheme of things, but back to my original point, if they want minors to carry letters from their parents, then they need to publicise this. Even if it is at the airport, given that most kids travelling legitimately will be taken there by their parents, they could provide a form to complete.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 19/04/2015 23:55

Atruth - if someone has spent two weeks in Raqqa, and decided that ISIS is not for them, they are hardly likely to admit it to immigration!

OP posts:
greeneggsandjam · 19/04/2015 23:56

I have no idea why they refused to contact him or why they needed a whole half an hour to question her. Why don't you just write to them with the officers name and ask them?

Icimoi · 20/04/2015 00:01

If they wanted confirmation that her parents knew about and authorised the trip, it was idiotic not take the opportunity they were given to speak to her father and, of course, to check his ID. The fact that they didn't take that opportunity does rather suggest that they were being Jobsworths.

TendonQueen · 20/04/2015 00:04

Goodness, held up for half an hour! Get a lawyer and start the compensation claim now. Hmm

I see this totally the other way round - why should it be assumed that 16 year olds should be allowed to travel internationally without any checks being applied on whether they should be? They are not legal adults yet. Seems reasonable to ask for parental permission to me. Does this really affect that many people anyway?

TheNewStatesman · 20/04/2015 00:05

"What if I had let DD1 get married - would she have needed a parental letter to go on her honeymoon with her new husband?" Hmmmm.... but the key word here is "let"; given that you need parental permission to get married under the age of 18, I think it should not come as too much of a surprise that you may need parental permission to travel under 18 too.

The airlines should deffo let people know if this is a new requirement, but like others here I am surprised that you are surprised! Especially given the situation in the last year about jihad brides.

Bugsylugs · 20/04/2015 00:07

Yes new rules coming in this year. I thought they were coming in June/ July. Not airline based maybe something on fit for travel. I have started advising

SunnyBaudelaire · 20/04/2015 00:11

anyway instead of being outraged that your DD was 'held up' be happy that immigration is asking the right kind of questions to young people potentially in danger of exploitation of all kinds.

OrangeVase · 20/04/2015 00:15

DD went on an organised trip recently and we were asked for a letter of consent.

Not widely publicised and IMO should be but not and unreasonable thing in itself.

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 20/04/2015 00:19

I'm not outraged at all. I just think, as I have said all along, that if under 18s need a letter of consent (which, frankly, Mickey Mouse could write, or anyone could forge), then they need to let people know. I don't think a letter of consent is worth the paper it's written on, unless it is drawn up legally, with sight of the parents' passports etc etc.

My biggest puzzle is why so long at immigration on return to the UK?

OP posts:
PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 20/04/2015 00:38

I don't get it either.

It make sense leaving the country but coming back into the UK with a UK passport what could immigration do.

No law has been broken and surely immigration can't lock up a British citizen for coming home.

What does a letter do any way. It's easy to type a letter and sign the bottom. There is no proof that the parents have written it and signed it.

namechange0dq8 · 20/04/2015 01:43

As well as the obvious point that someone with a UK passport has an absolute right to enter the UK, unless the immigration people believe the passport is forged, cancelled or otherwise invalid (you might be arrested upon arrival, but that's different) the key point is that the OP's daughter is 16. Not 15. 16. There might be some exotic theory that 15 year olds need permission to leave the country (although it is more likely an airline's concern is whether they'll be let into their destination) but 16 year olds? Meh. The UKBA official was overreaching.

I suppose it's possible they had some complex theory that she was travelling on her elder sister's passport, or something, but so what? She'd sill be a UK citizen, with absolute right of abode. The stuff about a duty of care for trafficking: what, a UK citizen coming into the UK (I assume OP that she has an obvious UK accent, native-speaker standing English, and had money and debit cards and a mobile phone and so on)?

UKBA need to have some redundancies if they've got spare resources to piss around on things like this.

Aussiemum78 · 20/04/2015 01:53

I'm glad they checked her on the way out. She could have been going to Syria. She could be a victim of forces marriage. She could be a victim of child trafficking. She could be part of a custody dispute.

Any child travelling without a parent should be checked as they are vulnerable.

I travel with Dds birth certificate so I can show I'm her parent (different surnames).

Part of travelling is that customs can interview you and ask your personal details etc. it's not unreasonable to expect it.

Topseyt · 20/04/2015 03:53

I can see why it was frustrating. I can see too that the published guidelines seem less than crystal clear.

If they are now stopping girls of around her age for checks when apparently travelling without their parents then that is also understandable in light of recent events.

I don't get why they couldn't have put out a call for your husband though. Did they speak to him at all? I presume that a quick conversation with him would have resolved the matter efficiently?? I think that if I were the parent of a child traveller I would want to be contacted in the event of a problem / misunderstanding.

What were they planning to do otherwise?? Deport her straight back to Turkey on her own? Is contacting the parents or family of a minor travelling alone not a logical check to make, regardless of whether or not they have a letter??

Not that I am any expert on the UKBA and how it all works though. In fact, in the current climate I really don't envy them their job at all. Probably dammed if you do and damned if you don't sort of scenario.

Put it down to experience this time. Contact the relevant agencies and suggest that the current guidelines as publicised (or not publicised) need updating and clarification.

NerrSnerr · 20/04/2015 04:04

It must have crossed your mind that there would be increased security for young ladies going to Turkey? On the way back they would have been assessing whether she has been in Syria.

They were doing their job. Imagine if she had run away to join Isis? After all the publicity recently you'd be very annoyed if they didn't stop her!

Olbersparadox · 20/04/2015 04:07

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

nooka · 20/04/2015 04:32

My dd was held for almost an hour by immigration coming into the UK last summer. She found it a frightening experience, and like the OP I think that there should be more publicity about this requirement for UK children returning to the UK as we had no idea that a permission letter was now a requirement, and didn't expect any issues at all.

The immigration officer who finally spoke to me told me that it's been the rule for many years, but when my ds did the same trip at the same age a year before he just got a 'welcome back to the UK' comment as he walked straight through the gate. They were both staying with their grandmother for a week of family visiting and ds wasn't even picked up by a relative (dd's uncle, aunt and cousin were waiting for her). Both aged 14, traveling independently a route they have done many times since we emigrated.

nooka · 20/04/2015 04:34

Oh and I flew a fair amount as a teen (and younger in fact) to stay with relatives and don't recall carrying/showing any letters from my parents.