To think that if 16 year olds need a letter of consent to travel overseas without parents, then this should be publicised?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

DD1, who is a few months short of 17, recently went on a walking holiday in Turkey with a friend and her family. I checked the gov.uk website before she left, and also that of the airline, and neither mentioned the need for a letter of consent from parents to travel (the airline said it was needed for under 16s).

DD1 was held up by the airline, who called Immigration, who gave her the nth degree questioning, finally letting her board, when she showed them an email from me, giving details of her travel insurance. On return to UK, she got held up for even longer, being questioned about where she had been, what she had done, with the IO telling her that she should have a letter from her parents giving permission to travel, and that she "would exceptionally land her on this occasion, but next time to remember that she needed a letter." DD1 was quite upset by the whole experience.

Is this a new thing, and if so, where is it publicised, that you need a letter? What if I had let DD1 get married - would she have needed a parental letter to go on her honeymoon with her new husband? I understand that they are feeling a bit sore after the recent "jihadi brides" going to Syria, but DD1 in no way fits this profile, was wearing all her walking gear to travel, and was going nowhere near the border with Syria.

YABU - the world has changed. I'm flying on my own with the DC this summer and will carry a letter from DH giving me permission to fly with the kids and their birth certificates. We live in the U.S. and the authorities get very sensitive around children leaving the country without both parents giving consent. I don't blame them and think it's a sensible approach to take. I've had immigration question the letter because it wasn't notorized and offered they call DH. The took me up on my offer and called him. We were leaving the country not returning.

Supermum thats a completely different scenario to this this one.

OP I can only guess it was because of the ISIS thing - lots of people have gone to join ISIS by going through Turkey. So the authorities and Immigration were told to look for youngsters male and female travelling on their own to and from Turkey. Most who join don't board a flight for Iraq or Syria, they fly to Turkey because the Turkish borders with these countries are not heavily scrutinised. I'm afraid it's likely that all travel to Turkey in the next few months or more will probably be like this, unless you go with the whole family, or with a tour group. A man travelling with another male friend, a young woman travelling with another young woman are likely to be questioned too.

A teenager traveling to TURKEY without a parent and you wonder why they questioned her?

No law has been broken and surely immigration can't lock up a British citizen for coming home.

Immigration don't know that, there are British people in ISIS, if 'Jihadi John' chooses to return tot he UK do you think he should just be welcomed back?

I agree with you OP. If they want a letter for a 16 year old then they should bloody well say so, not say they need it for under 16s only. I'm sorry your daughter was upset.

The problem is its Turkey. Yes your dd may have been travelling with a family for a walking holiday. To its obvious that's what's going on.

But when entirely families or groups of girls are disappearing into Syria from Turkey, which then the families blame on the police, HO and immigration. To me its obvious that there will be extra checks done coming and going, especially from that country.

Yes it must be frustrating, but also Imo its to be expected at the moment.

Dbro travelled to Florida with my family and mum and dad. He got a right grilling on the way out and way back, as its unusual to have a man in his early twenties travelling to Florida alone. His ticket had been purchased separate to us. Its just one of those things.

We had similar when DSD and her friend travelled as unaccompanied minors to us in Cyprus. Despite the fact that we were using the BA unaccompanied minors service, the girls were wearing badges making that clear and were accompanied by BA staff they were still stopped at immigration and asked where their parental letters were.

Apparently the BA lady told the IO they weren't needed as they'd been handed over by parents and were being collected by parents, but the IO still phoned DH (in Cyprus), DSD mum & friends mum (travelling back from Manchester) and all were soundly 'told off'

DSD mum actually put in a complaint but nothing came of it.

I have a friend who has no relationship with the father of her DS and keeps a letter (that she typed up herself) in her sons passport from 'father' giving permission to take her son on holiday without him. It's been asked for a number of times and never questioned. What a waste of time.

I think there's two separate issues here -

1. Should 16 year olds require permission from their parents to travel

And

1. If permission to travel is needed, should the home office and airline make that known before 16 year olds rock up at the airport?

For 1. Then I think it's not unreasonable of the home office to require permission, although I do think your dd should complain about the person who thought she shouldn't be allowed back in.

For 2. You are completely right - if this is going to be a requirement, considering this is a relatively new requirement, then it needs to be made clear, not putting it on the home office website is poor. It would be relatively easy for airlines to include a "if this child is travelling alone they will need a letter of permission" note in booking confirmations for children.

It's not really acceptable for government agencies to just expect citizens to guess what documents they'll need. That lots of people on here would guess correctly doesn't make the lack of information acceptable and the op wrong.

OP, please don't complain to the airline. The vast majority of airlines have a clause in their Conditions of Carriage (which are usually linked when the email ticket confirmation comes through) which states that the passenger is responsible for verifying all immigration formalities and that the passenger may be refused carriage if s/he does not have the right documents. Airlines have a special database that tells them what the formalities are, it's shared by all airlines and is kept up to date so they know at the time of check in what is needed, however it would be too cumbersome for them to keep updating the requirements on their websites or ticket confirmation emails.

They have to be very careful because if they transport a passenger without the right documentation they will be fined by the country of destination and have to foot the cost of flying the passenger straight back home.

However the fact that the airlines are NOT responsible for publicising the information makes it all the more essential that this requirement should be made clear on the UKBA's website. Also, I am, like other posters, totally bemused why they would want to see a letter permitting her to travel with friend's family before she was allowed back into her own country. Worth asking for an explanation of that.

Did the IO not speak to the other family at any point?

I wonder what would have happened if she had been Scottish,, but departing through England - Scottish 16 year-olds are legally adults (eg they can marry without parental permission. )

They were doing their job. Imagine if she had run away to join Isis?

She was coming home. if she was running away, she wasnt doing a very good job.

How is it acceptable to quiz a 16 year old UK Citizen on her return to the UK and make a fuss about "exceptionally landing her"? A parent was in the arrivals area. Why did they not call him given they think she is too young to travel alone? If she is too young to travel alone with a letter of permission, she is too young to be quizzed by immigration about being too young.

Having said that, where were the family she travelled with? I would have expected the parents to have been helping her.

People aren't just running away to Syria though are they. The concern is they are coming back, unchecked as the are uk citizens. The worry is about what they do when they come back.

shewept do you think it is really likely that an immigration officer will be able to gather enough information at the point of entry to justify detaining a teenager withfullyvalidentrydocumentation the right to re-enter his or her own country?

I thought immigration officers were there to ensure that only those who had the right permissions and were not likely to over-stay were allowed to enter the country. Not to launch anti-terrorist investigations against Britsih Citizens.

People aren't just running away to Syria though are they. The concern is they are coming back, unchecked as the are uk citizens. The worry is about what they do when they come back.

And yet they let her out of the country.

Is an 18 year old less likely than a nearly 17 year old to run away to Syria?
Is someone with a letter from their parents, who might be ISIS sympathisers, safe?

Regardless, it should be made clear that a letter of consent from a parent is required.

This sounds like a knee jerk reaction by the gov/civil service in response to the young people going to Turkey/Syria. I should imagine that there is no formal information on it. A letter is a bad idea, though, because children could write such a letter themselves. I'd imagine that the best solution would be for parents to accompany their children to the airport and speak to the immigration officers themselves. I would also advise the parents to take their own passports, otherwise, how are the immigration officials supposed to know that the supposed parents are the child's real parents? In the end, though, there are no guarantees for anybody, because the child could have somebody else's passport, anyway. Immigration officials might be able to stem the flow of teenagers to Syria somewhat. But, the only real solution would be to prevent them from travelling at all.

There are people going to Syria, getting training then coming home to help plan terrorist attacks in the UK. This is happening. Surely it's a good thing that immigration service are trying to stop this?

I would rather they interview everyone going to and from Turkey and anywhere else people are flying to join Isis. If they interview 1000 people in a month who are leaving and returning from Turkey and find one person who is joining/ has joined Isis then they have done a good job.

In agree there's 2 issues.

The fact their is no publish information requiring over 16's to have a letter then the general public cannot be expected to comply.

The issue of them pulling her aside - I'd be interested to know when this happened? Was she was liking through with friends family and they pulled her or had she been through passport control?
Once it was established she was a UK citizen they should have graciously given her right to enter. Instead of this saving face pretence they are doing her a favour.

I cannot get upset about the fact they call people. I'm actually pleased to know that despite media and some politicians and general belief of the population they don't just let any Tom dick and Harry enter.

Under 18s have always need a letter of authority from both parents to travel alone. A similar letter is also required the child is only travelling with one parent. The requirement has always,been there but recent world events mean the rules are being closely followed.

You would be rightly furious if your daughter hadn't been challenged and subsequently you found out she had gone to Turkey to attempt entry to Siria. Being stopped is a pain but it's a necessary process.

The problem is that there are certainly more than 1000 people a month going to and from Turkey and other countries in the vicinity of Syria, and if they interview each and every one of them, that alone is unlikely to demonstrate whether they're going to join ISIS. You'd have to have extensive staff available to double check on the information people give, so everyone would be held for hours on entering and leaving the country. NerrSnerr, can you seriously see that working?

I cannot get upset about the fact they call people. I'm actually pleased to know that despite media and some politicians and general belief of the population they don't just let any Tom dick and Harry enter.

But, youarekiddingme, they have no choice but to let every Tom, Dick and Harry with a UK passport enter. So what's the point in interviewing them and implying that they have any power to prevent it?

I was just coming on to agree with trying about Scottish teenagers.
A 16 year old in Scotland can legally leave the parental home, get married, do all sorts of things bar buy knives or alcohol. Not all 16,17 year olds leave home with parental blessing so how do they go about getting a written letter to go on holiday.

If it is now a requirement that immigration need a letter of consent then it should be clearly stated on the gov.uk website.

DS (17) is leaving with a group for the U.S. this morning. (Good luck C14) One of the adults is his designated guardian for the trip.
I have had to provide a letter, signed by me and DH giving permission and naming the guardian. The request to do so was in the US government visa waiver info online.

Under 18s have always need a letter of authority from both parents to travel alone. A similar letter is also required the child is only travelling with one parent.

Google is failing me here. Where does it say this?

I guess a Scottish 16 year old departing/arriving in a country other than Scotland is not an adult. The laws of the country apply - so a UK 18 year old can not buy alcohol in the US despite being able to in the UK.

I'm surprised by the amount of criticism the OP is facing. She checked a variety of reliable sources to find out what documentation she needed, and provided everything requested. In spite of this, her DD was put through a frightening experience. I don't think that's ok at all.