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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To get so angry about the no compromise attitude of my kids headmistress

526 replies

twinsplus1sfb · 17/04/2015 09:19

Arghhhhh - need to vent.
Situation - I have 3 kids (2 in Yr2, 1 in yr 4). They have never been abroad experienced an aeroplane different culture etc etc.
Their grandad has booked an expensive family holiday abroad, unfortunately he got mixed up with the dates and booked it for the week before half term.
I put a holiday form in and got a phone call from the school - apparently that is SATs week for my twins.
We have looked into changing the dates - no can do.
So - and here's where I get angry - I went to the head and told her the situation and asked her if there was any way we could work together around this, could the kids stay late after school one day or come in at the weekend before the SATS or come in in the half term after SATS.
I just got a flat NO to every option I suggested - she said it would affect their grades, and their whole school career. I asked if there was anything I could do - and she said "Cancel the holiday, oh and there will be a fine"
I understand that taking them out is not acceptable - but come on school - can we not compromise??? Help a little??? I dont even mind paying the fine, I'm just so upset that she cant even work with me on them taking their SATS on a different day or different time - is it really that strict? Would all of the headmistresses out there say that?
My kids have 100% attendance, they have never missed any school for holiday reasons ever before - its so peed off - and its going to ruin my holiday. Any advice? Any body had nice experiences with their heads? Is there anything I can do so that my kids can take their SATS?

OP posts:
Beloved72 · 17/04/2015 19:26

"Keeping a child in at lunch is generally 10 mins at the most. Doing a test isn't."

Not at my dc's school.

Beloved72 · 17/04/2015 19:28

"The majority of holidays are neither amazing or mind expanding, Beloved".

Well, no, not for adults. Particularly not m/c adults used to taking package holidays.

But many children (mine included) have never been abroad, and never flown. My children would find a holiday abroad the most amazing experience.

Beloved72 · 17/04/2015 19:30

"Right - I have told you, Beloved. A teacher doesn't have to work lunch times and I wouldn't."

Teachers work through their lunch ALL THE TIME. They often sit in their classrooms and eat their sandwiches and do their marking and record keeping. It's normal practice.

Beloved72 · 17/04/2015 19:31

"Because if they are supervising a test, they can't help the child with a piece of homework, which means the child continues to struggle or it has to be done some other time!!"

I think most teachers can, and regularly do, do more than one thing at a time.

dementedma · 17/04/2015 19:31

Dont know about SATs as we dont have them here in Scotland. I have taken Ds out of school in term time a few times for various things and he is no further behind his classmates or had any problems keeping up. A few days out of school isn't the end of the world.

Sirzy · 17/04/2015 19:32

They are doing that so they can spend an hour more at home at the end of the day. It's not out of choice.

And if they are supervising a test they cant nip to talk to a colleague, or go to the toilet, or find resources etc etc.

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/04/2015 19:35

Beloved72
"Again - exaggeration. Nobody is suggesting that a member of staff put all their admin aside for a month to teach a child who's been absent during their lunch break."

This was done by a parent to me after they took their children out every year "the only time they have done it" or "because their grandparents where ill" (it was an on going joke how many times they had "family issues" that happened to occur in a sunny foreign country).

And yes they expected me and all the other teachers of their children to stay behind and teach them what they had missed.

One holiday may not have a huge effect but many holidays will, and from the sound of it the OP's GF will make this mistake often.

OP, take your holiday, but do us all a favour and take another one for year 6 sats and year 7 cats, then you can take as many holidays as you like as the missing data will mean that your holidays won't affect anyone.

Mehitabel6 · 17/04/2015 19:36

I was a teacher. I worked through all my lunchtimes because I chose to.
I would not supervise a test merely because they had a cheap holiday. You wouldn't like it, Beloved but there is nothing that could be done. Teachers do not have to work in their lunch breaks. I think that stopped in 1970s.

Mehitabel6 · 17/04/2015 19:37

Simply have the choice:
Cancel
Miss SATs and pay the fine.

Floggingmolly · 17/04/2015 19:39

Well then the op was even more unreasonable for telling her kids about this potentially amazing, mind expanding experience before she'd sorted out the finer details, Beloved
She knew it was booked in term time; telling her kids they were definitely going before trying to rearrange the SAT's to suit herself talking to the school was ridiculous in the extreme.
Anyway, she's obviously going on the holiday. But that's not enough; she'd prefer to go with everyone's blessing, and an assurance that the teachers will work weekends to ensure her kids miss nothing (and a promise to show the class the video of them paddling in the sea with hankies on their heads).

ghostyslovesheep · 17/04/2015 19:45

I'd go op - the fine will be £60 per child - so £180 not thousands!

it's a mistake - shame to miss a holiday for Ks 2 SATS

grannytomine · 17/04/2015 19:53

I know teachers who are at school till 6 aren't drinking coffee, I already said my daughter does it and if kids need help they get it, she stays two days a week and runs an open session for kids who are in exam years. I know they do some reading in assessments but surely some of it is written work that the teacher would just give to the child and do their own work while the child completes the assessment. Maybe multi tasking has gone out of fashion.

grannytomine · 17/04/2015 19:57

PesoPenguin, I do voluntary reading session at local primary, plenty of TAs seem to wander around, often making tea and going round asking who wants one. Unless a TA is there for a particular child they do what they are needed for and IF the SATs are so vital it seems a perfectly reasonable way to use them. When I was at school TAs hadn't been thought of and teachers seemed to manage perfectly well.

rookiemere · 17/04/2015 20:02

I think the issue here grannytomine is that teachers are already giving up their valuable unpaid time to offer assistance to pupils that need it. I'm sure they do this because they are generous people and want their pupils to succeed, but they do it from choice.

That's completely different from being forced to set up exam conditions in their lunch break or after their working day because someone's parents decided that a week of holiday was more important than school.

And yes it a pupil was ill, I'm sure they'd make alternative arrangements and in the OP's case if there was another pupil doing the exams at a different time, this might be a possibility for hers, but to set up a separate test in your free time so that a family can have a cheap holiday, well I can see why the head would be unkeen to suggest that one to her staff.

Andrewofgg · 17/04/2015 20:04

Babymamamama

I wish we could be allowed by central government two weeks of free passes ie you can legitimately take child on holiday for max that amount of time over the year but not not during exams etc. that would level out the price hikes that travel operators subject us to. Feel sorry for the head teachers they have no choice but to try to enforce these draconian rules.

And you won't mind if teachers take their own children off for two weeks during term-time and your children lose out?

Come off it. Paying more for holidays because you have to take them when supply and demand pushes up the price of hotels and flights is part of parenthood.

grannytomine · 17/04/2015 20:05

rookiemere none of this is the child's fault is it? So if the SATs are so life changing then I am sure the teacher wouldn't take it out on the child anymore than they would to a child who was ill, again not the childs fault.

From what people have said the year 2 SATs aren't that big a deal so what is the problem? Other than people wanting to be outraged, which is the big issue I think.

OrangeJuiceSandwich · 17/04/2015 20:10

I don't believe for a second Granddad got mixed up.

rookiemere · 17/04/2015 20:14

Well yes if I was a teacher grannytomine I would somewhat resent using my own unpaid time to supervise a DC because they'd been off enjoying a cheap term time holiday.

Ironically of course we often forget that whilst families with school age children only have to pay higher holiday prices for around 10 years, teachers are stuck with them for life.

To be fair though, although as I've said above I'm not 100% sure of the ages of the children, I can't see that any test done by an 8 yr old (is that right for the school age) can be so important. I don't have a fundamental issue with the OP taking her DC out, my beef is with the idea that the teaching staff need to make up for her families error ( if indeed it was a mistake to book that week).

If you want to take term time holidays then you should at least be prepared to accept the consequences yourself not lump them on to extremely overburdened hard working teachers.

spanieleyes · 17/04/2015 20:25

If I;m helping a child with their homework I am talking to them about it, asking questions, explaining ideas and concepts, asking the child to clarify their understanding, none of which can be done if a poor child is trying to sit a test in peace and quiet! ( Which doesn't overcome the fact that one I would be doing because I want to, the second because someone wanted a cheap holiday!)

Variousrandomthings · 17/04/2015 20:40

Y2 Sats are mostly for the schools benefit, not your children's. They partly use the results to give Y6 targets. Grades in Y2/Y6 sats also enable agencies to work out if a school is helping children to reach their full potential (what ever that is)

However life and education is bigger then school. Take the holiday OP and have a blooming good time.

If you google your county councils name plus 'unauthorised absence', you will be able to work out the fine situation. My county council would not fine after 5 days unauthorised absence, they would send a letter with a warning.

Possiblestudentteacher · 17/04/2015 20:48

grannytomine helping teenagers with exam prep is somewhat different to keeping tired 6 year olds back after school for more work. I'm not really bothered if the op takes her kids out or not, it's her decision. What does bother me is this pervasive idea that teachers are lazy and could do so much more than they already do.

laughingcow13 · 17/04/2015 20:58

the only party who suffers if they miss sats is the school.

that is why op is offering to bring her kids in out of hours FOR THE SCHOOL'S BENEFIT

laughingcow13 · 17/04/2015 21:01

and the fine is not per day. it is £60 per child per parent IN TOTAL

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/04/2015 21:01

"that is why op is offering to bring her kids in out of hours FOR THE SCHOOL'S BENEFIT"

My god! she is a saint, how could I have missed that!

KatieKaye · 17/04/2015 21:08

YABVU because you weren't proposing any compromise or trying to work with the head.

everything you suggested involved an unworkable compromise on the school's part, with no compromise on your part. You were being totally inflexible about the holiday,

Pay the fine or cancel/change the holiday.
Simple.

But don't whinge on about it or think teachers should give up their time so you can have a week on the beach.