To get so angry about the no compromise attitude of my kids headmistress

[twinsplus1sfb]

Arghhhhh - need to vent.
Situation - I have 3 kids (2 in Yr2, 1 in yr 4). They have never been abroad experienced an aeroplane different culture etc etc.
Their grandad has booked an expensive family holiday abroad, unfortunately he got mixed up with the dates and booked it for the week before half term.
I put a holiday form in and got a phone call from the school - apparently that is SATs week for my twins.
We have looked into changing the dates - no can do.
So - and here's where I get angry - I went to the head and told her the situation and asked her if there was any way we could work together around this, could the kids stay late after school one day or come in at the weekend before the SATS or come in in the half term after SATS.
I just got a flat NO to every option I suggested - she said it would affect their grades, and their whole school career. I asked if there was anything I could do - and she said "Cancel the holiday, oh and there will be a fine"
I understand that taking them out is not acceptable - but come on school - can we not compromise??? Help a little??? I dont even mind paying the fine, I'm just so upset that she cant even work with me on them taking their SATS on a different day or different time - is it really that strict? Would all of the headmistresses out there say that?
My kids have 100% attendance, they have never missed any school for holiday reasons ever before - its so peed off - and its going to ruin my holiday. Any advice? Any body had nice experiences with their heads? Is there anything I can do so that my kids can take their SATS?

Yes Les Petit I saw that too, it does discriminate to the poor of course it does.

Sorry, wrong thread.

Quite a lot of the holidays taken in term time are quite expensive ones where parents are simply booking then to save cash

I gulp at some of the prices I see mentioned here for holidays, however I have seen many more, that are very cheap breaks, no where near that much and in RL friends are scrabbling round for a few hundred pounds here and there.

We life in a Global world now and kids who travel,experience other cultures,experience other languages,see geography first hand,see the possibilities abroad or even the other end of the UK are hugely advantaged

100% agree with this. ^ Ironic we are part of Europe and yet struggle to access it.

I wonder how they'd phrase that exactly in any change to regulations that you'd propose:

How about authorized holidays are at the Head's discretion?

Or do you propose that parents of children who are behind, who miss a lot of school through illness or who have parents unable to help with school work will magically not request holidays at all?

If a child is struggling at school or missing a lot of class time, I propose schools tell the parents that the child is really falling behind and they should start taking school more seriously. that's the child the school needs to deal with. that's the child that needs help. they should be focussing on that child instead of mine.

Children have time off in term time for all sorts of reasons (illness, funerals, other exceptional reasons) and they are supported upon their return.

a few months ago someone posted about not being granted an authorised absence for a dying grandparent (not a funeral, wasn't dead yet).

Apologies it was the NUT(UK's biggest teaching Union) that put forward a motion saying the new regulations unfairly discriminated the poor and holidays are becoming the preserves of the middle classes.They also highlighted the benefits of time away.

another group it hurts is immigrants. It costs a hell of a lot to fly to the US to visit family. flying two or three days early can knock off 200-250 per ticket (so for my family of four that's close to 1000 quid).

The American education system does not function fine at all - it is pretty poor for the most part. Holiday fines or not, your child will get a better (state) education in the UK. Also Americans get far less annual leave and consequently travel less so you're not comapring like with like. Despite the "draconian" situation of "only" having 25% of the year available for holiday UK Kids are very well travelled on average.

The American education system does not function fine at all - it is pretty poor for the most part. Holiday fines or not, your child will get a better (state) education in the UK.

any basis for that claim? And if true, can any of that be attributed to the holiday fines?

The american system has far less holidays outside summer. In any case, I don't hear anything that has any basis.

Canada has essentially the same system as the US and, apparently, so does New Zealand with respect to holiday absences. Canada performs much better in the PISA rankings than either the US or the UK. But, none of this, as far as I know has anything to do with holidays.

Some Heads said a blanket no when using their discretion because it was easier than saying yes to some and no to others.

of course it's easier. but that doesn't help parents.

The inconsistent quality of the US public school system and the overall poorer results it produces is not a controversial claim - it's well established. I never said it had anything to do with the school fines system, you misread that.

The American education system does not function fine at all - it is pretty poor for the most part. Holiday fines or not, your child will get a better (state) education in the UK.

any basis for that claim? And if true, can any of that be attributed to the holiday fines?

I don't know if it is the same now but certainly when I was at school (30 years ago, my father worked for an American company), people from the UK would usually go up a year when they went to the States and those from the States would have to go down a year so they were clearly behind us.

Take the holiday.
SATs aren't the big be-all and end-all they're meant out to be.
They are retested in Yr 7 anyway, as they will be many times throughout their school career.
It's not going to destroy their education just because they missed a couple of tests in Yr2.
But, you will need to be very thick-skinned, as some parents and a lot of teachers will think you are evil-reincarnate for making your children miss SATS!
Can you cope with that?

The inconsistent quality of the US public school system and the overall poorer results it produces is not a controversial claim - it's well established. I never said it had anything to do with the school fines system, you misread that.

I know it's patchy and inconsistent. I am not sure it's substantially worse than here. In any case, my point was not that it is or it isn't, but it has nothing to do with school holidays. As this is a thread about school holidays, I thought that was your point.

I don't know if it is the same now but certainly when I was at school (30 years ago, my father worked for an American company), people from the UK would usually go up a year when they went to the States and those from the States would have to go down a year so they were clearly behind us.

They start one year later there. Also, throughout school (this includes university), they have breadth requirements that you don't get here.

but, as I said, it's not the quality I am concerned with. it's the connection with school holidays.

He or she isn't going to say "yes" to holidays for bright, healthy children and "no" to those who are behind or have been ill a lot.

right. and this is a problem with our public education, and in fact very consistent with our experience. schools don't respond to individual students very well. it's a mass of kids, and one rule fits all well, so they think. While this isn't the worst example of treating all children as if they have the same wants and needs, it's part of the broader thinking. so even though something may well benefit a bright student, say I want to take my child out for the day to see an exhibition at a museum, the answer is no. That simply makes for a poor system. It also is one example that can push parents like us towards the private system. We can afford to send our children to private school, but don't because we value public education (and our pockets are bottomless). But we like it a lot less here. DP and I have discussed this is the number one most alienating part of living here (this is part of a broader British cultural problem where following rules become a goal in itself here).

So schools should be flexible when it comes to 'parents like us' and out 'bright' children, accepting that we probably know best, but moderate their responses according to how good the parents and how bright the child?

Sounds a little problematic to me.

Exactly TheOriginalSteamingNit - and as I said upthread a class operates collectively and keepitsimple0 is irresponsible to the whole class as well as to her own little darlings.

I am a parent who fully supports school, I work very closely with school. However, that close relationship comes from ds having wider issues which means he misses a lot of school and he struggles when he is there (brittle asthma and ? Asd). How does that fit into the system of judging who is allowed time off?

(Not that I would take him out of school for a holiday but I'm just interested with these systems for judging how people would have heads judging on cases which aren't black and White!)

Wot the Nit said.

It is entirely possible that the teacher has a slightly different attitude to your child's capacities, too. And indeed that the school wouldn't be heartbroken if you removed your child in a huff too.

And the idea that everyone living in the UK is a rule-following Britsheep is just silly.

Exactly tiggy.

And then what if their were also siblings. One who was clever, never ill and the other who struggled? Should we just allow one child to go on holiday?

That's the problem when people think of what suits them black and white approaches, life isn't black and white.

I think you'd fall into the tough luck, no museum pass for you category. Afterall it isn't keepitsimple's or anyone else's fault that your son misses school so why should their children have to forego sanctioned time off just because some people are away from school a lot? Other children in the class are of no concern to them.

really, is that what I would think? it's everyone else that thinks we have to fit each child in a slot and, rather than giving discretion to heads, just turn this into a box ticking exercise. In fact, I would precisely be on the other side of this; that the child's needs should be addressed at the parent's and school's discretion. everything I have said supports that. it's everyone else's thinking you should be worried about.

Exactly TheOriginalSteamingNit - and as I said upthread a class operates collectively and keepitsimple0 is irresponsible to the whole class as well as to her own little darlings.

Really. Education is incredibly important in my family, as in DP's. My kids are plenty supported, and then some.

I don't know if it is the same now but certainly when I was at school (30 years ago, my father worked for an American company), people from the UK would usually go up a year when they went to the States and those from the States would have to go down a year so they were clearly behind us.

They start one year later there. Also, throughout school (this includes university), they have breadth requirements that you don't get here.

They were still a year behind at the age of 14 or 15 though. I'm not suggesting that it has anything to do with taking holidays during term but sI don't think you can argue that their education system functions as well as the UK's so we should do what they do regarding holidays etc.

I don't agree with SATS at all, but if you are in the system this is what you have signed up to. It isn't fair to expect the rules, policies and procedures to be changed for one person as everyone would want to do it.
If you sign up you have to suck it up.
One way to avoid this OP is to do what other parents do who aren't happy/ don't want to follow procedures of the system, deregister and H.ed