To get so angry about the no compromise attitude of my kids headmistress

[twinsplus1sfb]

Arghhhhh - need to vent.
Situation - I have 3 kids (2 in Yr2, 1 in yr 4). They have never been abroad experienced an aeroplane different culture etc etc.
Their grandad has booked an expensive family holiday abroad, unfortunately he got mixed up with the dates and booked it for the week before half term.
I put a holiday form in and got a phone call from the school - apparently that is SATs week for my twins.
We have looked into changing the dates - no can do.
So - and here's where I get angry - I went to the head and told her the situation and asked her if there was any way we could work together around this, could the kids stay late after school one day or come in at the weekend before the SATS or come in in the half term after SATS.
I just got a flat NO to every option I suggested - she said it would affect their grades, and their whole school career. I asked if there was anything I could do - and she said "Cancel the holiday, oh and there will be a fine"
I understand that taking them out is not acceptable - but come on school - can we not compromise??? Help a little??? I dont even mind paying the fine, I'm just so upset that she cant even work with me on them taking their SATS on a different day or different time - is it really that strict? Would all of the headmistresses out there say that?
My kids have 100% attendance, they have never missed any school for holiday reasons ever before - its so peed off - and its going to ruin my holiday. Any advice? Any body had nice experiences with their heads? Is there anything I can do so that my kids can take their SATS?

But what message are you sending the other children - the ones in class who don't have term time off - that the rules only apply to certain people, that their classmate can go on an holiday and have it framed up as a special once in a lifetime experience that they deserve and when they come back the topics they have missed have to be gone over again. That it doesn't matter if X has time off because he is super-clever and can learn languages at the beach. Try looking at it from their peers' point of view.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but other people's children and family situations are beyond my control and not my concern. I simply don't control what other families can afford or do. I am not arguing for term time holidays only for me; everyone should have this flexibility. I don't have any control how well other children perform in class, and I don't see why my family should have to pay twice as much for a vacation because of this.

I think some people forget (or don't want to acknowledge) that education is a cumulative process, and each thing the child learns can form part of the foundation for the next part of the topic, and so on. If a child misses some of the building blocks of a topic, it can be much harder for them to build a solid understanding of the whole topic.

Indeed. that's true for some kids. And some other kids are right bored in class because they are miles ahead. the point is that parent's should be able to decide.

I think teachers work bloody hard as it is - both at school and at home, and I was utterly gobsmacked at the entitledness of the suggestion that they should come in at the weekend to fill in the gaps for a child who has been on holiday!

the weekend issue aside, I am all for making teachers working conditions and pay better.

See my post above, keepitsimple - how are the teachers supposed to teach all the children all the things they need to know, if one or two are absent every week, or if there are weeks when half a dozen are absent?

And how is the parent supposed to know whether their child knows/understands all the things their teacher would have taught them, the week they were away on holiday?

Keepitsimple Learning in class is a collective experience - deliberately or otherwise. In a good class taught by a good teacher help flies from one to another - and it's not always the clever children who give it. Your children are benefitting from others all the time and probably don't even know it.

As for the cost of holidays: You pay more for flights and hotels because of supply and demand and it comes with being a parent.

Since when has having a holiday (abroad or otherwise) become a necessity rather than a luxury?

My parents were both teachers who also ran a B&B in a seaside resort - so we never got the chance to go away. Instead, we spent our holidays playing with all the other kids who also couldn't go on holiday and then had holidays when we were older. Oddly enough we are pretty well-rounded people with a good appreciation of other cultures - probably more so as we chose where to travel and appreciated it more because we were older and it was, therefore, a long awaited treat.

Last lines - in the UK I go to the west coast of Wales - much prettier, nicer and less crowded than Devon and Cornwall. In Europe, France, Netherlands and Mallorca. I always book myself - no packages.

allowances for other issues but a school cannot run on every parent doing what they think is best for their own child. There has to be some acknowledgement that they are part of a group and have to fit in with what is best for the school too.

as I said earlier, somehow schools in america can function fine without resorting to draconian fines. I have two teachers in my family there and asked what happens when children miss school, and they said the obvious (give parents missed work). When I told them what happens here, they were .

So in fact schools can do this elsewhere. It's possible there is something special about british schools (the best explanation I can think of is that travel here is more common, but I have no basis for thinking this is so).

The only other country's education system I'm familiar with is the Netherlands. Term time holidays are not permitted there and unauthorised absence is reported and fined. A request will be considered if your employer provides proof that you're not allowed to take annual leave in the school holidays.

But giving the parents the missed work puts an extra burden on the teachers, keepitsimple - and several teachers have explained why it is not a simple thing to give the child appropriate work, to cover what they are going to miss/have missed.

And how many parents will have the skills, experience and knowledge to teach the missed work as well as a teacher?

When I was in New Zealand on holiday my sister rang my nephew's school as we were going to the city he is at boarding school at. She asked if he could be excused from his classes, around midday to come out to lunch with us.....no problem,,,,,,she was then asked would be be back for any classes that day.
Friends I speak to over there seem to have no issues taking their children out for a week or so if the family has an overseas holiday/wedding/funeral. I am sure if a parent did this regularly it would be an issue. It probably would be questioned if permission was requested at a crucial time in the academic year but certainly for primary children it is something which happens and parents/ guardians are allowed to do this. I teach children and like many parents appreciate the value of reasonable continuity of attendance at school but I think when parents are denied permission to take their children to family funerals, celebrations and holidays which slightly overlap with holidays it is over the top and in some cases unreasonable.

Not sure where the proposed compromise is here. You want her to grant a week's absence. What are you bringing to the table - and I'm disregarding the ridiculous notion of sending in your children at weekends/half term.

But giving the parents the missed work puts an extra burden on the teachers, keepitsimple - and several teachers have explained why it is not a simple thing to give the child appropriate work, to cover what they are going to miss/have missed.

and as I explained, it can somehow magically be done in other places, and I remember it being done all the time when I was a child when printing, communication, etc were all much more difficult. So, what's special here and now?

And how many parents will have the skills, experience and knowledge to teach the missed work as well as a teacher?

if you are a parent that can't help your child, don't go on vacation. Simple. If your a school and a child who is behind is missing class routinely, get on them. Why bother families who are getting along fine?

phewIdidit entirely agree with what you said.

*you're!

Teaching methods and resources are different now.

But Tiggy schools can and do want to accomodate children having time off.Ours does.Headteachers at a recent conference voiced their concerns re poorer children being effectively prevented from having experiences that time away from home brings.

We life in a Global world now and kids who travel,experience other cultures,experience other languages,see geography first hand,see the possibilities abroad or even the other end of the UK are hugely advantaged.

Yes because weekends and school holidays are times when teachers still have to be available to do the work with the kids who weren't there when they should have been. We are teachers 100% of the time... and it's no bother to put work packs together for people who want a holiday. I totally understand it's cheaper, I love paying more for my holidays naturally, but you go when you feel. What? You'll miss a vitally important part of your education? Tell you what you do it when it suits you, I haven't allocated marking time for the vast quantities coming my way soon at all. I would love to come in on my day off to sit with your child because they were sunning themselves while everyone else was doing the test. Nothing would make me happier!

And SATS count for a great deal at secondary. The year 6 ones are what is used to predict GCSE outcome. And just as an aside, I was 28 the first time I flew anywhere. I managed perfectly fine up until then.

The sense of entitlement does me in.

Ultimately the problem is that everyone views their own circumstances as exceptional. In the broad scheme of things they are not. In my experience children have been granted absence for funerals abroad and some weddings as well as the odd over lap in holiday by a day or so.

The issues arise when parents abuse the system, which is what was happening prior to the new legislation. Year 11 kids removed for a week prior to or just after Easter, kids missing 2 weeks worth of lessons at key times of the year and such and here's the rub, many of the parents doing so were taking holidays in the 6 weeks too! But just couldn't afford that extra week skiing as well.

Problems then often arose when parents questioned results and of course who were the fingers pointed at? Something had to give.

The advice on this thread is generally, take them, take the fine and move on. However, I'd be very careful in future with bookings, once is unfortunate, twice is negligent.

Apologies it was the NUT(UK's biggest teaching Union) that put forward a motion saying the new regulations unfairly discriminated the poor and holidays are becoming the preserves of the middle classes.They also highlighted the benefits of time away.

I suggested - she said it would affect their grades, and their whole school career

This goes against nearly every thread on sats I have seen, I thought they were purely for school purposes?

Anyway, I think time with GP is precious, and I would simply take them.

Quite a lot of the holidays taken in term time are quite expensive ones where parents are simply booking then to save cash. I think there was a thread a few months back about a 5K holiday to Cyprus. That isn't the holiday of a parent who can't afford to take their children away for family time.

Parents booking holidays in term time just to save money might be discouraged if the fine represented more than the potential saving. I think that's what should happen and any sanction should be applied with absolute consistency. Perhaps then parents genuinely submiiting exceptional circumstances would have fewer hoops to jump through.