Selfishness with buggies on public transport

[CarryOnCramping]

I know we love these threads.

Yesterday DS and I had to use various modes of public transport. We got on a tram at lunchtime at a quite busy time and had to stand up. DS is 3 and generally a bit wobbly if he has to stand up on moving vehicles so not ideal but not the end of the world.

One woman was sat in a section of 4 seats, so two facing another two, with her buggy stuck in the leg room bit. So nobody else could have got in to sit down. Apparently completely unaware that the tram was packed and their were elderly/pregnant people that would probably have liked a seat.

We got on a train at rush hour (in London) and another woman sat on an outside seat had her buggy next to her in the aisle. So when anybody got on if they wanted to go and get a seat they had to take their bags off and squeeze past in the tiny gap left. She'd make a half arsed attempted at pulling the buggy towards her and say 'oh sorry' but didn't actually think to move her buggy?

AIBU to be dumbfounded at this kind of behaviour? How are people so oblivious? I remember when my PFB was tiny and how stressful I found public transport and I probably even made some silly awkward decisions some times but never to that extent? Is this a thing now or did I just witness two selfish people in a short space of time?

I can't believe some of you (KatieKaye) are arguing for disabled rights with someone who is disabled.

And in addition, you have dismissed the difficulties Rabbishes has detailed as unimportant. Nice. I would save your ire for the people who really have no excuse

It reminds me of a post I saw once on a "disabled toilet" thread, where a poster mentioned that her (able bodied) husband liked to question non-wheelchair users he saw exiting accessible toilets about whether they genuinely needed to use it and why. She obviously thought this made him some kind of knight in shining armor and champion of disabled rights, rather than a rude, ignorant twat.

@rabbishes
You're situation sounds rubbish, I hope that you find more sympathy in real life than you have here

Rabbishes, I am shocked at the way you have been treated on this thread. You have a disability and in order to travel need to keep your buggy up, I can't see why this is a problem, and I hope in rl people are understanding. I know I would be.

I catch the bus often with my ds, who is nearly 5 and in a sn buggy with postural supports (in effect a wheelchair), occasionally there is a competition for space with a buggy, and as ds's buggy does not fold, and he wouldn't be safe out of the buggy, I always help the parent try to fold, or squeeze in, I have held twins on my lap, and hung other peoples shopping on the back of ds's chair. There have been a couple of times where people have been off, one time a mum refused to fold and the driver asked her to get off the bus (it turned out she was only going to the next stop!) and sometimes we have had some tuts and eye rolls when people have to fold to get us on, but on the whole people are good.

I know how hard it is getting on public transport, with babies, I had 2 under 13 months at one point, and yes it could be a headache. But tbh nothing has been as hard as getting the bus with ds, and the worry that if a wheelchair user got on we would have to vacate (one of the bus companies here states that wheelchairs take precedence over sn buggies). It was especially bad when he was a very floppy 3 year old in a normal buggy, as we would try and fold and he would become hysterical and I would be unable to hold him, we missed a lot of appointments in those days!

"Wow, that's a new low...."

Yeah, think you've totally misunderstood me. No one should have to justify their disability nor have to explain themselves or 'trump'.

I read it as a reprimand to Rabbishes after she offered to explain exactly why she couldn't fold her pushchair. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I agree that no one should have to justify their disability. I know that there will always be thoughtless folk who use disabled facilities for convenience, but I think I'd rather they go unchallenged than people with disabilities that aren't immediately obvious being made to feel like they have to explain to judgmental strangers.

I witnessed a situation yesterday in South London when waiting for a (very delayed so more packed than I imagine is normal) bus with my buggy (containing baby DS, accompanied by pre-school DD, DH and friends). We'd been waiting for ages for the bus but by the time it arrived an elderly wheelchair user had arrived at the stop. We hoped he wasn't going to be waiting for our bus but he was; tough luck for us, but that's life. We knew we'd have to wait for the next one. In four years of bussing with a buggy all over London it might be the third time it's happened to me. I couldn't therefore understand it when he sat at the end of the ramp for ages without getting on. Turns out there were two buggies already occupying the wheelchair space (so we'd have been snookered anyway!) He sat there like that for a while whilst the buggy owners stared blankly at him. The driver was doing nothing and, given the recent case law, I suppose no-one can blame him. I ended up getting on and explaining that they would need to move their buggies to allow him on, which they eventually did. The slower of the two to move went over and unbuckled what looked like a healthy four-year-old from his umbrella-fold buggy and stowed it. It stunned me that they were happy to see an elderly man in a wheelchair sit on the ramp whilst occupying a clearly marked wheelchair space.

people with disabilities that aren't immediately obvious being made to feel like they have to explain to judgmental strangers.

And that is exactly how the posts made me feel. I wasn't attempting to play top trumps but I felt I needed to defend myself against the accusations that I am selfish.

I am in a good stage at the moment, if I need to collapse the pushchair today I could do it. Tomorrow, next week, next month, who knows? To look at me, sitting there with my pushchair, I look entirely able bodied. Most of the time I am, aside from little adjustments I have to make here and there at home, when out and about, and in my work. But on the days when the opposite applies, I can barely function. Usually when I am on the bus in this condition it's because it's an unavoidable journey. Thankfully everyone I've encountered in RL at these times have been decent and understanding.

No, not at all a reprimand. :) There will always be a small percentage of parents who, like Rabbishes will be physically unable to fold a pram for health or disability reasons. I don't see why they should have to justify themselves or the extent of their disability to anyone. I am now visibly disabled because I use various aids but when I wasn't, I hated asking for a seat and feeling obliged to say "hey, I know I look young and healthy but my body is actually very broken inside, I'm dosed up to the eyeballs on narcotics and I am in agony". :(

I disagree that we should leave unchallenged because that is wrong and unfair to disabled bus/train users. If someone said "are you able to please fold your pram?", there is no challenge, just a polite request. It becomes nasty if a parent such as Rabbishes says "no I'm disabled/can't due to illness" and then she gets rounded on like on here.