Selfishness with buggies on public transport

[CarryOnCramping]

I know we love these threads.

Yesterday DS and I had to use various modes of public transport. We got on a tram at lunchtime at a quite busy time and had to stand up. DS is 3 and generally a bit wobbly if he has to stand up on moving vehicles so not ideal but not the end of the world.

One woman was sat in a section of 4 seats, so two facing another two, with her buggy stuck in the leg room bit. So nobody else could have got in to sit down. Apparently completely unaware that the tram was packed and their were elderly/pregnant people that would probably have liked a seat.

We got on a train at rush hour (in London) and another woman sat on an outside seat had her buggy next to her in the aisle. So when anybody got on if they wanted to go and get a seat they had to take their bags off and squeeze past in the tiny gap left. She'd make a half arsed attempted at pulling the buggy towards her and say 'oh sorry' but didn't actually think to move her buggy?

AIBU to be dumbfounded at this kind of behaviour? How are people so oblivious? I remember when my PFB was tiny and how stressful I found public transport and I probably even made some silly awkward decisions some times but never to that extent? Is this a thing now or did I just witness two selfish people in a short space of time?

Public transport can be a bit of a nightmare with a pram/pushchair!

There is, at times, a lot of selfishness on public transport, not just from those with buggies etc.

I live in an urban part of London and tend to walk most places or use the car if absolutely necessary.
Am very thankful I don't have to get the bus (with a pushchair & baby) to get to and from work each day.

I know people say you must have a fold down buggy, but how does that work in practice?
Do you wait until the bus has arrived or do it while waiting?
What if you have shopping bags as well?
It's awkward holding an 8 month old and juggling everything else.
And what if it rains?!

Parents and their buggies getting public transport on a daily basis have my total respect!

Just to add, I have one of those 'tanks'...a pushchair that doesn't fold down with one hand/in 2 seconds.

I would never dream of taking it apart on the bus...I would just choose not to get on the bus or get off if it got too busy. Neither of these scenarios have actually happened.

Also, I always stand with the pushchair rather than trying to find a seat.

I am lucky I have the choice to be able to do all these things.

I agree that buses/public transport is a scary option for new mums daring to venture out!

In general, I find people more friendly on trains, buses seem to be the worst for stress levels & rudeness!

Got a love some posters on MN who seem to think all new mothers should have life made as difficult as possible on public transport- oh just because( no reason really).

Buggies are heavier these days because they are safer. Buggies "back in ye holy day" we're often shite.Most families only have the money for one buggy which needs to be as safe as possible.In the old days I'll wager people helped out more.These days families are more fragmented and many members work so extended family aren't there to help out on trips where public transport is necessary.

Of course there should be designated buggy places,it is utterly ridiculous that some bus companies don't have the them. More and more grandparents are doing the childcare these days,leaving them with as little help as possible stinks. Ripping mothers to shreds because they struggle and there is a need for better services quite frankly beggars belief.

Many mothers live in areas with shit public transport,few buses and limited car access due to cost.Making it easier to get out is crucial.

Oh and re slings/ New York, the former don't work for many and can actually be more of a hinderance and when we all have the money,facilities and public services New Yorkers have I'm sure we'll all be hopping off and on public transport with our designer special public transport buggy whilst sipping a wheat grass.

I live in London and I get trains, tubes and buses every day. My children are older now but when they were in pushchairs and buggies I took them on public transport all the time. Once I had to get off a bus to let a wheelchair user on. Once. In about six years of taking a buggy on the bus. On (commuter) trains it's different because the staff come and do that ramp thing and there are specific areas where a wheelchair can go - in the normal carriages there's no space because it's too cramped. From some posters on here you'd think there are wheelchair users at every bus stop weeping because selfish parents won't let them on the bus.

Saying that I do have lots to say about parents who take kids on rush-hour trains whether in buggies or not, but that's for another day...

My buggy doesn't fold down (well it does, but it doesn't take up any less room folded) but our local buses have space for wheelchairs and several buggies anyway.

I don't accept that it's selfish for me to use the facilities provided when using public transport.

As using public transport is going to be encouraged more and more due to the environment and congestion frankly buggy places and also(imvho) seatbelts for young children will need to be sorted out sooner rather than later otherwise young mothers are simply going to be edged out of using them altogether. Going by the attitudes of some on here there would be an abundance of glee should that happen.I also think some have very rose tinted specs as to remembering what carting babies and toddlers about is like.

Um Blonde what do parents do in London if they have to drop their dc off to nursery on the way to work or have an early medical appointment?

I used to take my 3 all on reins during London rush hour at times,yes I got dagger looks but frankly how else was I to get from A -B?

Buggies are heavier these days because they are safer. Buggies "back in ye holy day" we're often shite.

Sorry, LePetitMarseillais, what you've done there is fallen hook, line and sinker for marketing hype. Back in the day I promise you babies weren't getting killed and maimed by their buggies.

Most families only have the money for one buggy which needs to be as safe as possible

Or they could spend £20 less on mega expensive so-called "travel systems" and invest in a cheap and cheerful fold down for those occasions when they travel on buses.

They toppled and were crap sorry.

No I haven't fallen for anything thanks.Plenty of older family members who remember their crapness and how easily they fell over backwards,had crap restraint,were awkward etc,etc.

I never had a travel system.I had the narrowest double buggy that would cope with the rural area we lived in and was easy to manoeuvre ie a Nipper.It doesn't tip backwards,it folds easy but is a Buggar to lift along with 2 a newborn,2 toddlers and a load of shopping on a crammed bus that comes once an hour where nobody helps you or leaves space to put your barely walking toddlers,newborn,shopping and afore mentioned folded buggy.

Cheap umbrella fold ups are dangerous(if I had a pound for every one I've seen topple backwards) and a nightmare to steer and manoeuvre.You're left with them for the whole day.

Umbrella strollers are also harder to push and they are therefore not always a practical choice for people with back and/or joint problems. Larger wheeled pushchairs are lighter and easier to push, I've had a double with huge wheels with two 20lb toddlers in it that was easier on my joints than a single, small wheeled, Chicco with one 15lb baby in it. People don't always buy the big tank-style pushchairs as a fashion choice, it's often due to practicality too.

And as for buggies back in the day being safe? I remember a well publicised Watchdog safety campaign back in the 80s around buggies. I can't remember the brand, it was either Maclaren or Silver Cross, but the folding mechanism was capable of chopping off a child's finger.

I think if the wheelchair space is empty and NOT needed by a wheelchair user and your pram does not need to be folded, then what does it matter which pram people choose to take on a bus?

If you're not happy to get off if a wheelchair does happen to need the space then yes, buy a foldy pram and vacate the space, but if like me you don't mind getting off and waiting for another bus, pram choice shouldn't really matter?

It maters because loads of people will not vacate the wheelchair space.
One posted to that effect above.
Parents have a choice to buy the pushchair of their choice but if exercising that choice and then refusing to fold or vacate the wheelchair space when required for the purpose for which it is intended,,well that is just plain selfish and deliberately making life difficult for a person who has no choice.

I would have asked her very politely to move the buggy so people could sit down.

If an elderly person gets on the bus and I am standing too, I ask if anyone can let them sit down. It's a bit embarrassing, but someone always steps up, and you aren't left fuming because you've asserted yourself. I live in London

Well I completely agree that's extremely selfish, if you aren't prepared to get off or move then you're a first class idiot.

Despite me stating several million times on this thread, I WILL get off for a wheelchair user (and have done before) I've still been told I'm selfish which is a bit annoying though

Exactly, KatieKaye. It's the parent's right to avoid a little inconvenience in using a foldable buggy when they travel by public transport, versus the wheelchair user's right to know that they can use buses in the same way as non-disabled people without having to wait for a bus where the only available space isn't taken up by lazy parents.

Well I feel sorry for mums with buggies. It's not easy.

Inkanta

I do to. I was once a mum with a buggy. But you can be a mum with a buggy who does her best in trying circumstances

too, not to

It maters because loads of people will not vacate the wheelchair space. One posted to that effect above.

I believe that was me? I also explained that I have a disability that can, at times, leave me unable to collapse the pushchair, hold the baby, manage any shopping, and stand on a moving vehicle. At these times I cannot always get off and walk. I did also explain though that when I am in a mild phase or I have someone who can assist me I can, and do, collapse the pushchair to make way.

I think it's mad to live in London or another busy city and buy a non easy folding pram to start with.

We have x2 children a year apart. Live in London. In flat. Need to use tubes and buses in rush hour. We simply didn't have the luxury of being able to get a double unfoldable pram even if we wanted. Youngest had to go in a sling, and 1 year old had to learn to walk or go in small pram. No choice. Shopping had to be done online, with dh about, or I took a rucksack for all the stuff.

Nannyplum - I was referring to the poster (not you) who said:
I hold my hands up and ope ly admit that I don't always fold if a wheelchair user needs to board.

There are some posters who appear to believe that just because you have a buggy then it is perfectly alright to make it impossible for people in wheelchairs to use public transport.

Sadly, this selfish and entitled attitude was partially backed up by a court decision which means that bus companies cannot compel selfish buggy pushers to move out of the wheelchair bay when it is required by somebody actually in a wheelchair. Hopefully when this happens the other passengers will be vocal in their support for the disabled person.

Lots of us have disabilities, Rabbishes. That is no reason for any of us to behave in the manner you do.
If you are not in a wheelchair, then get out of the wheelchair bay when a wheelchair user needs it. Full stop.
Otherwise you are simply stating that your non-wheelchair requiring disability trumps their legally protected right to be able to use public transport. And by doing so you are seriously fucking up their lives.
You can travel without any special adjustments, unlike a person using a awheelchair. Have a little consideration for other people and don't use disability as an excuse to deny a wheelchair user the right to be able to use a bus because your buggy is hogging the wheelchair bay.

Well karma will work its magic on those individuals.

Not all pram users are entitled and selfish and it's a bit annoying to all be tainted with the same brush.
I do understand it must be so shit being in a wheelchair and not being able to get on a bus because there is a pram that won't move. The law should be favoured towards wheelchair users and not prams.

And I say this as an obvious pram/bus user.

KatieKaye - It's not so black and white though.

It's just not easy on a bus when you've a buggy.

It can be difficult to get on the bus, and tricky paying, collapsing the buggy, holding baby and holding the shopping, and getting out of everyone's way, and then getting off.

I never assume mums to be entitled, selfish or lazy on a bus. I just don't. They have a lot on.

Difficult is not the same as impossible.
It is impossible for a wheelchair user to access public transport if someone like Rabishes refuses to move her buggy.
It is totally black and white.

It is a wheelchair space which can only be used by buggies if not required by a wheelchair user.

If Rubishes feels she can use the space for her buggy because she has a disability, then so can the person with arthritis who uses a shopping trolley. And if a shopping trolley can use the suave, why not a suitcase? Would Ranishes be okay with not getting her buggy in a bus because there were several suitcases in the wheelchair bay and their owners wouldn't move them? After all it isn't easy using public transport with a big suitcase and a travel bag and your handbag and having to juggle them!
There just isn't an excuse to ever refuse to move anything out if the wheelchair space that is not a wheelchair.