Selfishness with buggies on public transport

[CarryOnCramping]

I know we love these threads.

Yesterday DS and I had to use various modes of public transport. We got on a tram at lunchtime at a quite busy time and had to stand up. DS is 3 and generally a bit wobbly if he has to stand up on moving vehicles so not ideal but not the end of the world.

One woman was sat in a section of 4 seats, so two facing another two, with her buggy stuck in the leg room bit. So nobody else could have got in to sit down. Apparently completely unaware that the tram was packed and their were elderly/pregnant people that would probably have liked a seat.

We got on a train at rush hour (in London) and another woman sat on an outside seat had her buggy next to her in the aisle. So when anybody got on if they wanted to go and get a seat they had to take their bags off and squeeze past in the tiny gap left. She'd make a half arsed attempted at pulling the buggy towards her and say 'oh sorry' but didn't actually think to move her buggy?

AIBU to be dumbfounded at this kind of behaviour? How are people so oblivious? I remember when my PFB was tiny and how stressful I found public transport and I probably even made some silly awkward decisions some times but never to that extent? Is this a thing now or did I just witness two selfish people in a short space of time?

The moany old biddy

Loving the ageism. I should report, but I'll let it stand so others can see the attitude.

I would 100,000% get off if a wheelchair needed the space

You see, people keep saying this, but what I've actually seen is people with prams not moving, and bus drivers just driving past wheelchair users, because the space was all filled up with bluddy travel systems (whatever they are).

Threads like this are why I was too scared to go anywhere with my baby ds when he was in a pram. I borrowed a parent facing lie flat pram for the first few months which didn't really fold and was so scared of people shouting at me on buses I stayed home till I was recovered enough to sling him :(

I can't comment on all buses but the ones I use do have a buggy space. Wheelchair users can't use this space, they have one they can use opposite.

Some of the buses here are the same, a seperate area for each and both have fold down seats in them so can be used by other passengers too if needed. It's uaully the single decker that have two spaces, at least on the buses I usually get.

I hold my hands up and ope ly admit that I don't always fold if a wheelchair user needs to board. I have a disability and, if I am in a flare up, I would struggle to collapse my pushchair, would not be able to hold the baby safely or without discomfort, and would not be able to stand while the bus was moving if there wasn't a seat available. Sometimes there will be someone to help me, DH will be with me or another passenger will help (there is one lady who is a carer and I always collapse for the man she looks after if he boards because she knows my problems, she not only helps me fold up she also helps me put it back up when it's my stop), or I'll be in a controlled phase and will be able to collapse the pushchair (but will still need a seat). Other times I'm in pain, can barely move without wanting to cry, and I need the accessible space.

Personally I think the onus should be on bus companies to accommodate everyone. If some buses can provide two bays then it is entirely possible for all buses to provide them.

Imagine having years of having your child in a sn buggy or wheelchair and having to face the prospect of buggy users refusing to move/fold or moan every time you get on a bus.

What are parents supposed to do...imagine this scenario a women is on her own. How is she holding a baby and folding down the pram at the same time. Simply impossible.
She may not have the money for taxis everywhere!
Okay disabled people are vulnerable. I get that. But so are babies.
It's threads like yours op that seem to love picking on parents and their babies that cAn make patents scared to go out and feel isolated.

Try being disabled. Isolation is just the start of it. And babies grow up & become mobile ...

It is not about being vulnerable, it is about having no choice.

the wheelchair space is there because someone in a wheelchair or sn buggy, can't hop up and fold up.

Yes, it can be a pain in the arse, catching buses with a baby/ babies, and I am sorry if you found it so off putting that you didn't want to go out, Museumum, but there are choices - you don't have to have your baby in an unfoldable pram, there are other ways to transport babies, and it isn't forever.

I know how hard it can be, but it is honestly very unlikely that someone is going to shout at you for being in the wheelchair space.

when mine were bigger i bought a £16 basic pushchair and folded it up before getting on, made things much easier as dd wanted to sit on the seats anyway, what bugs me even more is someone wheeling a lightweight on then sitting the dc on a seat so the pushchairs just taking up seats or someone else with a pram cant get on. I once watched a woman with a kid which looked about 3 in a lightweight buggy make a mother with a brand new baby fold her large pram up, she really struggled, the driver got off and helped her when the woman with the pushchair refused to fold hers up because she was there first, driver carried the buggy on. I also got told to fold the pram up with sick dd in if i wanted to get on one bus because the driver refused to tell a kid on a micro scooter to get out the pram bay, that's when i started using the lightweight.

£18.99 in Argos, ive just bought one for my niece if anyone's looking for a cheapy to use on the buses, i used to watch my DM struggle with a toddler, a baby, a pram and the shopping up bus stairs so i really don't mind folding mine up when they are a bit older

If a bus driver asked me to get off to make room for a wheelchair then I would, I think anyone who refused would be an absolute knob. If the driver goes past and don't stop, that's not my fault, surely they must be told to stop regardless and turf the buggies off? I don't spend my bus journeys looking out for wheelchairs that may want the spot, I'm usually picking Sophie the giraffe off the floor a hundred times and stopping baby from grabbing people's coats.

If I can get on and there is an empty space that ISNT being used by a wheelchair and the signs state that it's ok for a pram to use, should I collapse my pram anyway just incase a wheelchair does happen to get on?

It's annoying to be continuously labeled as selfish when all I've done as well as many others do every day is use a space that the bus company have said is ok for me to use. I don't drive, I have no other option than to take my baby on a bus sometimes. As long as it's still ok to use the empty wheelchair spot, I will continue to do so.
Trust me, I long for the day when I can go out without the sodding pram but for now, I have no other option.

Upthechimney, I applaud u. I'm so sick of mothers with buggies, that are only temporary let's face it, taking up wheelchair spaces. Fine they should be able to use it...............as long as it is not required by a wheelchair user.

I hate getting on buses with my buggy! Ive walked for miles to avoid it. Trains and tubes aren't so bad, unless I accidentally get stuck in rush hour

I don't think all parents should automatically fold up buggies, I never said that. I'm a single parent that doesn't drive I do get how stressful it can be especially with a new baby. The women I saw were being ridiculously selfish, there's a huge difference between what they were doing and somebody putting their buggies in a wheelchair space when there is no wheelchair user on the bus.

Sad to see how the recent court decision re wheelchair spaces has impacted in RL with active refusal to move a buggy out of a wheelchair space. MN posters can be very vocal about the impact someone using an accessible toilet because they have a buggy with them, but the buggy in wheelchair space issue has a huge impact too.

If a bus has one space for a wheelchair then anyone who refuses to move a buggy is a selfish knob, whatever their excuses as to why their buggy should occupy a wheelchair space. I know Dawndonna's daughter has posted very eloquently on her personal experiences of how this attitude has really impacted terribly on her life, denying her the ability to use public transport, leaving her cold and vulnerable in bad weather.

It only takes the most basic observational skills to realise that while some new buses have a wheelchair space and a space for buggies many do not simply because of their design. Would the buggy users actively prevents a wheelchair user from getting on a bus) be happy with having to pay a large surplus fare (say £10) every time she takes her non-folding buggy on a bus in order to pay for the hugely costly refits of existing buses or for the purchase of an entirely new fleet?

@carryon
I think that's the point I was trying to make. I'm not that selfish person, I will get on if the space is empty and will get off if it's needed.
I'm sorry that some pram users are acting entitled over the space and causing problems for people with a genuine right and need for that space. I'm really not one of them.

I too would have rather walked than take a bus in London. I never folded my pram down on a train though, l just left it in the door area. Plenty of room for people to get on and off still.

All I read was team and immediately thought Croydon! I used to live in Croydon and I actually miss it. Sounds buzzard but true. Hello everyone in Croydon! I miss you all. Especially the drunk crazy guy who was always dancing in the town centre, no music needed.

Tram not team.

Bizarre not buzzard. Christ, fucking phone

Back to the thread. I am so thankful now that DS doesn't use a pushchair anymore. It was so bloody stressful on public transport.

There are a few things that spring to mind here.

Firstly, it is not impossible to hold a baby and fold a pram. It is entirely doable. Especially easy if you have a carrying aid with you. You can parent hands free without too much investment.

Secondly, if you have a pram with a car seat on top which requires removing the seat and folding the wheels, bear in mind that it is generally a very bad idea to keep an infant in a car seat for any length of time, twenty-thirty minutes at a time being generally recommended. So it might actually be a better idea to get that baby out of the seat anyway.

Thirdly, it is of course all about common sense. It is perfectly possible in many situations to not take a buggy out with you/on a bus in the first place. Or to fold it in advance, so anyone struggling (thinking of examples above where people were worried about using the bus, or walking miles to avoid the bus) can use the public transport services easily. And there be space for everyone. Including the few people who would really struggle without being able to keep theirs up, for whatever reason.

I agree. If your buggy doesn't fold, then don't take it on the sodding bus. How selfish. I am sick to death of selfish bloody women who think their precious babies trump everyone else. Guess what. They don't. Do you all have lobotomies the second you give birth that makes you incapable of considering anyone else's needs?

Of course it's possible to hold a baby and a pushchair to get on and off a bus.. How do people think parents travelled before the wheelchair spaces where introduced, back in the day when buses had steps? We folded and carried on with baby in one arm and buggy in the other hand. And shopping you thought about this.

I also blame buggy companies. Back in the day, lots where light and easy to carry. Some even had a carry strap so you could drape it over a shoulder. Lots were one hand foldable. Then these companies started designing these huge tanks that were impossible to fold (yes I know there was the huge silver cross back in the day, but parents knew this thing wasn't foldable and buses weren't accessible). Or they made them so you needed 3 feet and thousands of arms to fold and carry. And yes, parents not testing before they buy to see how practical they are also plays a huge part.

I live in New York and you're simply not allowed to take an unfolded buggy on a bus. End of.

Parents still get about somehow.

I always try to take ds in his sling. Then I can sit wherever I want!

However, when he was a newborn and I didn't have a sling yet, it would not have been possible to get on the bus, hold him with one hand while dismantling a pram, and then hold him in my lap, for the simple reason that I was still recovering from the birth! People seem to forget this salient point. I was anaemic for about six weeks. I would not have felt strong enough, especially as a first time mother, holding a tiny baby in this way on a moving vehicle. So, he had to lie flat in his pram! But I sure as hell was not going to sit at home bored for six weeks!