Selfishness with buggies on public transport

[CarryOnCramping]

I know we love these threads.

Yesterday DS and I had to use various modes of public transport. We got on a tram at lunchtime at a quite busy time and had to stand up. DS is 3 and generally a bit wobbly if he has to stand up on moving vehicles so not ideal but not the end of the world.

One woman was sat in a section of 4 seats, so two facing another two, with her buggy stuck in the leg room bit. So nobody else could have got in to sit down. Apparently completely unaware that the tram was packed and their were elderly/pregnant people that would probably have liked a seat.

We got on a train at rush hour (in London) and another woman sat on an outside seat had her buggy next to her in the aisle. So when anybody got on if they wanted to go and get a seat they had to take their bags off and squeeze past in the tiny gap left. She'd make a half arsed attempted at pulling the buggy towards her and say 'oh sorry' but didn't actually think to move her buggy?

AIBU to be dumbfounded at this kind of behaviour? How are people so oblivious? I remember when my PFB was tiny and how stressful I found public transport and I probably even made some silly awkward decisions some times but never to that extent? Is this a thing now or did I just witness two selfish people in a short space of time?

Lots of us have disabilities, Rabbishes. That is no reason for any of us to behave in the manner you do.

On days when I cannot fold the pushchair it's because I have zero dexterity in my hands and fingers. None. They are like painful, useless clubs at the ends of my wrists. Lifting the pushchair once it's folded can result in me dislocated my fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulder or - for maximum fun - all of the above. If I am standing and the bus lurches and I stagger or fall, I can dislocate or break my hips. I can dislocate my knees or my ankles. Simply walking can result in this.

I have a wheelchair for days like this but when I have my children with me I use the pushchair and I, sometimes literally, drag myself around.

What a selfish cow I am hogging the wheelchair space....

Shall I also lay out details of my POTS and mitral valve prolapse for your consideration?

No, disability top trumps are very unbecoming.

On days when I cannot fold the pushchair it's because I have zero dexterity in my hands and fingers. None. They are like painful, useless clubs at the ends of my wrists. Lifting the pushchair once it's folded can result in me dislocated my fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulder or - for maximum fun - all of the above. If I am standing and the bus lurches and I stagger or fall, I can dislocate or break my hips. I can dislocate my knees or my ankles. Simply walking can result in this.

So don't fold the pram and lift it... get off so the wheelchair user can get on, and wait for the next bus.

So is implying that someone else's disability is less valid than that of another person without actually considering the details or the impact the condition has on that persons life.

By the time the baby is old enough to walk reliably I will have probably reached a point where I'll need my wheelchair the majority of the time. Certainly my consultant thinks I should be doing this now.

Not everyone who doesn't fold is selfish.

Well said, Tenerife. Disability top trumps indeed.
Ranishes- You are not in a wheelchair so don't block the wheelchair space when it is needed.
It is selfish and you declaring your needs trump that of the person for whom the space was designed and who is legally entitled to it.
Stop making their lives more difficult.

disability top trumps are very unbecoming

Wow, that's a new low....

I genuinely don't understand how a non-selfish person could stand there and watch a wheelchair user be denied travel because they don't want to move their buggy. How on earth could you do that and then hold your head up?

You are selfish, no matter how uou attempt to deny it.
You are not in a wheelchair now, which is the point. you admit you have stopped wheelchair users from getting on buses by not moving your buggy.
I hope that when you are in a wheelchair you don't suffer like the people your actions have left at the side of the road unable to get on the bus because your buggy is occupying the wheelchair space.

I can't understand people with bigger kids not folding up for mothers with babies in bigger prams never mind not moving for a wheelchair user.

There are some lovely posters on here.

The fact is buggy spaces are needed.There will be mothers and grandparents with all sorts of reduced mobility and needs for a buggy space. They shouldn't be ignored or swept to one side.Once folded where do you put them? Many services are hourly,on dangerous roads etc so getting off is not possible and could be dangerous.

There is no reason not to have more buggy spaces,all of us pay enough for fares.Frankly somebody somewhere should start lobbying companies to get spaces onto every bus.

The thing is, LaPetit, disability organisations did precisely what you suggest - a lot of major lobbying to get spaces on buses. So it's understandable that they are less than happy about the non-disabled taking advantage of all their work. I would suggest that everyone who thinks that "somebody somewhere" should start lobbying on behalf of buggy users should really get on and start the lobbying process themselves.

By that i mean people who are able to fold up the buggy. I have always wondered if a pram is in the wheelchair space can the driver deny the wheelchair user access, can they tell the pram to move or get off the bus if they refuse to fold it? I once seen a wheelchair user denied access when a pushchair was in the wheelchair space, the driver just said sorry, full.

I was also denied access with a pushchair because the driver refused to tell a kid with an electric scooter to get out the pram bay

There are indeed some lovely posters who attempt to defend their use of wheelchair spaces and refusal to vacate them when needed.
Wheelchair users needs should not be pushed to one side nor should they be left at the side if the road. People need to be more considerate rather than always prioritising their own needs, eg giving a seat to let a mum with a baby sit down, or putting your child on your lap so someone else can have that seat. And always getting out of the wheelchair space if you are not actually in a wheelchair.

Lepetitmarsellaise

have you ever been to new york since you think that everyone here has money and there are such great public services and facilities?

Certainly I'd assume you've never been to the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens.

Parents manage. Like someone said about years goneby, parents plan to fold down the buggy.

Sure, it's annoying and, as a mother to a baby in a buggy myself, it'd be easier for me not to fold it. There are wheelchair places, you can't use them.

Point is that you've been provided with a fantastic bonus in the Uk with being able to use wheelchair places. Its certainly not a given in many places in the world.

Recent course case decided bus companies cannot compel a buggy to be moved out of the bay. Came about because a mum did refue yo move and person in wheelchair could not get on.
There is no argument about who has the right to the space. The decision was about whether it not the bus company legally had to enforce the law by compelling the buggy pusher to fold it get off the bus . The judgement was that the bus company could not do this. The decision has no impact on the fact that the Soave is for wheelchair users and is to be vacated when required.

you admit you have stopped wheelchair users from getting on buses by not moving your buggy.

I have also stated that whenever I am able to fold the pushchair, I do.

I have also said that there is a lady in a wheelchair who frequently travels the same bus routes as me with her carer. They are lovely ladies and if I cannot fold by myself the carer helps me while the baby sits with M (not her real initial). They both know my issues and more often than not I get a good natured instruction to "start using the bloody chair" when I need it.

When I cannot fold, I explain why. On the few occasion it has happened, I've been told it's fine. I have offered to get off and been told by the person in the wheelchair to stay on.

You were foul to a poster with disabilities and should be ashamed.

This bullying witch hunt on these wheelchair space threads are just utterly appalling.

The zero lack of empathy for new mums,people with hidden disabilities and the elderly is utterly shite and frankly shows just how shit society is.

Buggy spaces are needed,they would ensure more wheelchair places were empty so win win for all. Refusing to make travel easier for one section of society when it could be done is just ridiculous.But then I guess if buggy spaces were made mandatory some posters would have one less subject to bully other posters about.

The zero lack of empathy for new mums,people with hidden disabilities and the elderly is utterly shite and frankly shows just how shit society is.

What are you on about? All of those people can use the bus without occupying the WHEELCHAIR space. Wheelchair users cannot.

Buggy spaces are needed,they would ensure more wheelchair places were empty so win win for all.

Yes, they would. But until they are in place the fact remains that wheelchair users can only use the bus if THEIR space is free when they need it.

"KatieKaye" You're letting your moral high ground run away with you here, and coming across as intolerant and unsympathetic to the mums' perspective, and name calling as well. Yes we know wheelchair users should get priority - but how can we better help mums' on a bus. Difficult situations always have grey areas

Yes it is foul to a person with disabilities and in a wheelchair not to move your buggy from the wheelchair space.,nobody disagrees with that. It's a fact
In her initial post about not moving her buggy Rabishes said that sometimes there will be someone to help her move the buggy but at others she needs the wheelchair space, which she called "the accessible space".
It is not an accessible space: it's a wheelchair space.
Life in a wheelchair is difficult enough without it being unable to use a bus because there's a buggy parked there.

I think it is the person who refuses to move their buggy out of the wheelchair space who is unsympathetic to the wheelchair user.

KatieKaye - so you have said many times. But you have gone on to use your moral high ground to brow beat anyone with a different perspective or angle on this, and someone with hidden disabilities of her own.

KatieKaye, regardless of our differing viewpoints, your attitude towards me has been disgusting. You have called me names and have made remarks that seek to diminish my disability. Are you always so hateful or do you reserve this attitide specially for internet forums?

KatieKaye Thank's i always wondered and assumed a legal argument might have come up possibly due to a mother being told to vacate the bay so were late for something/caused stress. I think the only solution is for companies to have the policy that the wheelchair bay is kept free at all times or you will always get people who refuse to fold for a wheelchair

Its always a risk when you go out with the buggy, i have an hourly service so if its full then i just have to wait an hr or get the bottom bus and another one up the hill or walk, this is made worse by the fact the bus leaves from the city center and im boarding about 5 stops later. Its ok if like other place's you have a 10 minute service, you can then wait for the next one. I learned fast if i didn't want to get 2 buses or walk up the bank i would have to use a lightweight umbrella fold buggy to collapse quickly if the bays were taken to guarantee getting on the bus, done it with all 3 so i suppose i got used to it, obviously more difficult with a new baby or twins. Spent many an hour waiting for the next bus with a bigger pram i couldn't fold watching people with toddlers in the pram space who could have folded if they tried.