To think this woman actually *is* being a bit "too posh to push"?

[VenetiaFleet]

Talking to a colleague about childbirth today, she brought up the topic, not me. My DS was born last year – straightforward natural birth in the water, quick recovery for me. She was making faces at the idea of natural birth and said that it's hideous and if she ever got pregnant she’d always opt for an elective c-section as it’s so much easier and her friends who've had one just rested after childbirth and were fine.

Then she said that another reason she wants a c-section is because she doesn't like the idea of being loose and wants to remain "tight" for her husband (also imaginary at this point)! I guess her implication is that those of us who've given birth naturally have fanjos like windsocks!

Do we finally have a case of someone who actually does think she’s too posh to push and doesn't realise that a CS is major surgery??

She can make a choice about how she gives birth (to her imaginary baby) just like you made a choice about how you would
So what?

Her fanny may be tight, her apron tummy will not.

Shes got a lot of bridges to cross first, so i wouldnt pay much attention to her. Smile, nod.

She may well have heard of people who had VBs that weren't like yours. My VB experience was horrendous. I needed surgery a month later and will need further surgery at some point - it will effectively be like major surgery x 3. My ELCS was a breeze in comparison and I would definitely recommend it to my DDs. I don't think I would even describe my ELCS as being major surgery. I certainly lost less blood from the CS.

Why does her hypothetical birth plan bother you? Different women have different beliefs and desires in terms of giving birth. She may (or may not) change her mind if she ever does become pregnant.

I don't know why you think she's posh? Or what a person's level of real or perceived poshness has to do with how they give birth? The Duchess of Cambridge seems incredibly 'posh' yet she have birth vaginally.

I have had two ELCS and all this too posh to push business really gets on my tits.

I wouldn't say posh. Posh means stylish, lavish, elegant, etc doesn't it? I've always wondered why the term is too posh to push because it doesn't make any sense.

I don't think fear of vaginal birth and the (mistaken!) belief that major abdominal surgery is easier than pushing, or even the, frankly, disturbing notion of staying nice and 'tight' for your husband are about being posh. Rather, it's about fear.

I had 2 vaginal births. Both were 10 and a half pound babies. Yes, it hurt like hell but I was up and walking around right afterwards. My sister had a cs and she was in agony for weeks. She's struggled with scar tissue and still has pain now - her daughter is 16! I gave birth at the same time as a friend. She was being wheeled back after a cs as I was wandering down the corridor looking for coffee with my baby shoved under my arm. She looked awful, poor thing. Frankly, I think vaginal births are a hell of a lot easier that cs, based on my admittedly limited experience. I felt really sorry for them because it wasn't easy at all for them.

But anyway, that's neither here nor there. That's just how I've seen women struggle after cs and why I don't think of it as an easy option at all.

Pelvic floor exercises done daily deal with the 'tight' issue (usually)

I wouldn't pay any attention. She's entitled to her view. She's not entitled to sneer at you for yours though, so you'd be entitled to tell her to drop it.

If she's not even pregnant, then what does it matter? And even if she was, it's her choice - I really can't see how her decision makes her 'posh' either way.

I still have pain 8 yrs after a CS. There is nothing 'posh' about it.

I'm not bothered by her hypothetical birth plan, I just think her sneering and "I want to stay tight" comment is a little silly.

She was making faces at the idea of natural birth and said that it's hideous

I have had similar comments (from women without children). I have never seen anyone do this in relation to c sections.

There is no apron tummy if you're not overweight myarks

With thos eignorant attitudes she appears to be far from too, " posh". More too thick .

There is if they did the stitches incorrectly Peter :(

I think lots of people think this. My mum only had CSs (not by choice) in the days when it was done under GA and she always described it as being 'very civilised'. I couldn't imagine giving birth naturally as I'd never heard anyone talk about it and only saw screamy TV births. Once I was pregnant and started to learn more about birth options (plus had friends to share experiences) I was really keen to have a vaginal birth. Hey guess what - I ended up having to have a CS anyway. But my point being I don't think you can judge anyone for their hypothetical preferences when they are unlikely to have researched or really understood them. I also think if she or any woman decide to have an ELCS once they are in that position of knowledge and understanding, they should not be judged either.

I wouldn't give her a moment's thought, it's the sort of bollox I used to come out with before actually having a baby along with all sorts of other ridiculous crap!

I would of swapped my forceps delivery which caused a 4th degree tear and my entire rectum to tear, 7 major operations later including a colostomy bag for a ELCS any day. 3.5 years on and ive had to live with feces coming out my vagina this entire time because some prat of a doctor decided to yank my daughter from me with forceps instead of doing a c section. Maybe she has heard real horror stories like mine and doesn't want to risk a vaginal birth. Ide pick having a saggy tummy and a one off operation over what I've been through anyday.... I don't think she's being too posh to push.

She just sounds like a woman who has swallowed a lot of media/internet hype and misconceptions about childbirth, and is sounding off without thinking. And she certainly isn't posh if she's happy to talk about vaginal tightness with a work colleague!

I have had 2 vaginal births and ninth have been big babies and I certainly haven't lost any elasticity from my vagina.
I am pregnant again and would be terrified of having a CS because the healing time afterwards is much more and I dont want a scar. I think CS should be used only when there is a medical necessity or the woman is paying privately for the surgery because a CS costs a lot more than a non complicated vaginal delivery.
I wouldn't really care what somebody says about birth choices when they have never given birth though.

Really, who cares how other people give birth?

As for the tightness issue:

The majority of vaginal births probably don't have any more effect on the vagina that the pregnancy itself did (pregnancy alone has some permanent effect on the pelvic floor).

However, if a woman has a bad birth (and particularly if she had an instrumental birth involving a vacuum or especially forceps), it can result in damage to the muscles and connective tissues surrounding the vagina and, in particular, significant injuries to the levator ani (the big muscles supporting the vagina on either side).

It is estimated that perhaps 1/5 of all women giving birth vaginally suffer levator injuries. If this does happen, then yes, a woman will end up with a wide, loose-feeling vagina (and I'm afraid kegel exercises won't help, because you can't exercise a muscle that has been crushed or ripped off the bone. There is currently no surgical way to repair levator injuries, so once this happens, you are stuck with it).

sydney.edu.au/medicine/nepean/research/obstetrics/pelvic-floor-assessment/Pelvic_Floor_Assessment/Publicacoes_files/Levator%20trauma%20in%20labor.pdf

So while most women who have given birth will not end up with loose vaginas, there is an inevitable risk that it it can happen if you give birth vaginally.

If she feels that this risk is worrying enough to her that she does not wish to attempt vaginal birth, it's her choice.

She's entitled to the birth she wants. I am fed up of people trying to dictate to women how they should give birth just because something worked for them. An elective c-section is much safer than an emergency c-section and nobody can say whether their vaginal birth will go to plan. So if you want a c-section you should be able to have one. I had a very long labour with ds and I did mention a c-section at one point and they said no. I'd have gone MAD if they'd put me through another 18 hours or so and then made me have a c-section. Fortunately ds came out the "normal" way eventually.

In a civilised country with a decent healthcare system they should have the choice. Full stop. And please nobody start bleating about cost. An elective c-section is cheaper than dealing with the possible after-effects of a botched vaginal delivery. Equally a simply vaginal delivery is cheaper than dealing with the after-effects of a botched c-section. But nobody can ever know if their vaginal delivery will be straight-forward.

She's entitled to the birth she wants

Yes but how rude to criticise a vaginal birth as 'hideous'.

I don't think that there is any such thing as 'too posh to push' and I support any woman's right to an elective section if that is her choice.

If they've researched and know their stuff and still have a strong opinion, all power to them. I suspect from the 'just rested' comment, and the idea that she'll automatically be able to 'opt', she isn't in that category at this point.

I would put general 'sounding off' of this sort into the same category as people who say that their baby will fit round them and they'll be in the perfect routine by 6 weeks. It's general "I know nothing but I'm going to have a strong opinion" stuff.

She sounds clueless. But then she's not even pregnant, so she's never really had a reason to get a clue - and yeah, people who don't know what they're talking about should keep their gobs shut, but hey ho.

Also, vaginal birth doesn't always go like yours did. It can be a very big deal indeed. It can have lifelong consequences. It's a valid thing to want to avoid, even if most people go for it.

Cut her some slack. I had many hypothetical views on pregnancy, childbirth and parenting which were very different to my reality.