To think this woman actually *is* being a bit "too posh to push"?

[VenetiaFleet]

Talking to a colleague about childbirth today, she brought up the topic, not me. My DS was born last year – straightforward natural birth in the water, quick recovery for me. She was making faces at the idea of natural birth and said that it's hideous and if she ever got pregnant she’d always opt for an elective c-section as it’s so much easier and her friends who've had one just rested after childbirth and were fine.

Then she said that another reason she wants a c-section is because she doesn't like the idea of being loose and wants to remain "tight" for her husband (also imaginary at this point)! I guess her implication is that those of us who've given birth naturally have fanjos like windsocks!

Do we finally have a case of someone who actually does think she’s too posh to push and doesn't realise that a CS is major surgery??

She can do whatever she likes, but it is a bit off to essentially dismiss everyone who had a vaginal birth as having a baggy fanny.

I think the phrase is just that because it scans.
Very rude to discuss tightness though. The only people I've ever known discuss it irl were really thick- EQ and IQwise. Both women.

Just like with BF/FF, I just think it would be nice if everyone could be a bit supportive to each other. I was very glad to have my two DC via VB, as I really didn't want surgery, but if I had needed a CS, that would be how they arrived. Other people want or need to have CS, and that's absolutely fine too. You can't tell by looking at people which way they arrived into the world and as long as they got here okay, does it really matter?

Muminhants - really good post. I think it's Brazil where the majority of women have sections just as a matter of course, I watched a programme last year and the pregnant woman's family were horrified that she was having a vaginal delivery.

I was up and pottering about within hours of both my CSs (2), had no labour pain and an extremely easy time. Experiences differ from person to person.

You think she's sneery?! I think you sound equally sneery with your "too posh to push" comments and why do you even care, given she's not even pregnant?

Here here to everyone just accepting each other's choices. I planned a vb but ended up with a planned cs. Tbh after years of infertility they could have pulled my ds out of my nose and as long as he was safe and well I wouldn't gave given a damn.
My cs was incredibly easy I don't have an overhang.
All vb aren't the same - I have a v v v good friend who has had sexual partners with and without children and I asked him once if he could tell the difference and he said not necessarily. With his 2 long term DP who each had one vb each ( he was with neither of them at the time) one was a 'wind sock' after and one wasn't. This factor didn't make him love either more or less in my opinion.

Giving birth is one day and how one gives birth does not make you a better mum!

I really wouldn't get offended by this. She has no dp/dh...she is not pregnant...she has not done any research into childbirth or spoken to a midwife or doctor about childbirth options and labour. She doesn't have a clue really does she? I'm sure she's not trying to offend. I'd normally reply to someone like this with a cheery "lucky you don't have to worry about this yet!"

I wouldnt care less how she plans to have her future babies but would be pissed off by her description of VB. Yes they can go wrong, but so can CS.

Well I have to say I am very 'roomy' after 2 vb's one with forceps and ventouse plus significant tearing.

Don't get the right issue at all. I had a vagibal birth with ventouse and if anything in tighter now. Easing into sex gently!

Why are you trying to find someone finally who is too posh to push? Is this some kind of challenge to prove that too posh to push exists? Why does it bother you so much?

The vast majority of women who opt for an ELCS do so with an element of fear. And even describing it as hideous could be indicative of that, rather than simply a rude comment, so I would be cautious of being dismissive of the remark outright. It may actually reflect something a bit more. She is unwise to use the word without a bit more thought as to how others might feel about it, but if that is how she feels then she may need help and support to deal with that if she does intend to have children as unfortunately being able to choose how to give birth is not something you can just pick on the NHS despite popular opinion.

There is a good case to argue for an ELCS on purely prophylactic reasoning too for some women. I do think saying "she doesn't like the idea of being loose and wants to remain "tight" for her husband" is different and born out of ignorance, but if she was to say she wanted to protect her pelvic floor, then depending on what her health and plans for a family were, I think its fine.

TBH I find the OP quite offensive as it is judging another woman for her birth choices. She may be ignorant and in need of education on a few points, but she should be allowed to make an informed decision even if you dislike it. And she should be allowed to do so without being labelled.

Also given that a significant percentage of women do actively choose ELCS do so on the basis of mental health and many find it difficult to talk about that decision due to fear of being labelled and many others don't feel that they can seek medical help for having very severe fear of childbirth due to this fear the OP merely serves to continue this taboo and stigma.

I see far too many threads on MN where women are asking advice for ELCS for 'non-medical reasons' only to find that they have very good mental health reasons which they AND HCPs do not correctly recognise as a medical reason because of this prejudice and despite it being quite clear in NICE's guidance that mental health is a perfectly valid health reason for an ELCS.

So OP. YABU.

I had a third degree tear after dc3 which has left me with bowel incontinence since the age of 35 so frankly, i will be advising my daughters who will in all likelihood give birth to big babies like i did (10lbs8oz) to seriously consider elective sections cos some of us just aren't designed to pull huge babies out of narrow pelvises!

Good god! It doesn't bother me - it's just a conversation I had this morning so it was fresh in my mind. I don't see it as any sort of challenge - TPTP is just a phrase that I happened to use.

Admittedly I do find this colleague annoying - in the past she sneered when I said I'd be buying baby items from ebay and Nearly New Sales, but I'm certainly not working myself up into a froth about it. Just thought it would make for a good AIBU. And I see it has...

I had an emergency section for breech baby and desperately wish i hadnt. Do remember my midwife saying there is quite a difference between electivr and emergancy as i ended up black and blue from mine.

TPTP is just a phrase that I happened to use.
Well don't.

It doesn't bother me
Why start a thread about it then? Oh you have a bit of a personal issue with this lady and want to take it to playground level and have everyone side with you about how awful this woman is.

Just thought it would make for a good AIBU. And I see it has...
No. It hasn't. A good AIBU has a balance argument that has two sides. Not everyone going YABU.

I think you're taking this a bit too personally Redtoothbrush, I'd suggest stepping away from the computer - it's just the Internet FFS. No need to get so worked up.

We shouldn't underestimate the degree to which the kind of media coverage and Internet discussion we get gives a lot of women real anxieties about these things, whether they are in a position to get pregnant or not. There are so many conflicting requirements:

natural birth, or you're a failure and not a real woman! Oh, don't do it, keep your vagina tight, else your husband will stray!

Caesareans are bad! On the other hand, don't be a disgusting superannuated 'mum' with birth injuries, urgh, how pathetic!

Get on with it, don't be a modern wuss making a fuss, our mothers stiffened their upper lips and just did it without epidurals! Natural birthers-all Luddite hairy-pitted feminazi wimmin who just hate male doctors, steer clear!

I've no real opinion on natural birth vs interventions except that you do what you need to do for yourself and your baby, being pragmatic.

I just hate the tendency to assume that the method of your childrens' births and how you managed afterwards says anything much about you as a person or specifically, as a woman (not that the OP has said or implied that).

Another yabu here.

She's not even pregnant, nor imminently planning to be, by the sound of it. It's pretty natural, under those circumstances, to not be too enamoured with the idea of pushing a baby out through your hoo ha.

Yes, it was offensive/bad taste to have made to 'tight' comment.

However I still think YABU.

She can think that a vaginal birth is hideous. She can think that the idea of her, personally, pushing a baby out is horrible. I think that - I have no desire to ever do it, though I went for a natural birth because I didn't think there was any chance I'd get an elcs. Doesn't mean she or I think that it's hideous as a whole concept, just we don't like the idea.

You're judging her just as much for wanting a vaginal birth.

The funny thing is we're all individuals and we all have different preferences. It doesn't matter how anyone gives birth, as long as they end up ok with what happened.

X-post with ouryve - It's pretty natural, under those circumstances, to not be too enamoured with the idea of pushing a baby out through your hoo ha

I imagine with many women there's this middle ground where you don't really want to do it at all but you know you're not terrified of the prospect. And then you hit 40w and you're just so big you want the damned thing out and stop caring how it comes out!

It's a horrible saying. She has her ideas, leave her to it. If she ever gets pregnant she may or may not change her mind.

Yanbu, to be offended with the insinuation that natural childbirth means you have a loose fanny.

Very well said, muminhants, "Too posh to push" I blame the bloody Daily Mail and the like.

Beth until I read your post I think I'd genuinely blocked out the bruising from my ELCS! I think I look back on mine with slightly rose-tinted specs as I was just so so glad to get my son out alive that I was singing the praises of them 20 mins later, and ever since!

This kind of thing is essentially just another stick to beat women with, IMHO.