To think this woman actually *is* being a bit "too posh to push"?

[VenetiaFleet]

Talking to a colleague about childbirth today, she brought up the topic, not me. My DS was born last year – straightforward natural birth in the water, quick recovery for me. She was making faces at the idea of natural birth and said that it's hideous and if she ever got pregnant she’d always opt for an elective c-section as it’s so much easier and her friends who've had one just rested after childbirth and were fine.

Then she said that another reason she wants a c-section is because she doesn't like the idea of being loose and wants to remain "tight" for her husband (also imaginary at this point)! I guess her implication is that those of us who've given birth naturally have fanjos like windsocks!

Do we finally have a case of someone who actually does think she’s too posh to push and doesn't realise that a CS is major surgery??

I actually don't think her comments were necessarily judgmental of you. But you were judgmental of her. YABVU.

And I have no idea who Danny is and whether Danny is a he/she. Maybe she has a tight fanny or maybe he likes tight fannies.

She isn't even pregnant. I would put this in the same category as how well behaved someone's imaginary children would be. Just ignore.

Flogging
Yes, NICE guidelines say a woman should have choice about how she gives birth. For some women that is a homebirth, for others, it is a CS.

I feel its horrible to describe someone as "too posh to push". Perhaps a kinder description would be "too scared (maybe with justification) to push".

I'd like to see the way ELCS are classified by hospitals change because that would go a long way to changing that.

My ELCS was classified as 'maternal choice', which neglects to differentiate between 'mental health', 'prophylactic health reasons' and pure 'choice'. I was diagnosed as having a problem yet this isn't reflected in the stats that the hospital collect. To a senior manager who reads the newspapers and thinks that too posh to push does exist, they will see that stat and think 'we can cut back and make savings here by banning maternal requests' - as some hospitals have done.

I find this frustrating. But then I think it serves the purposes of some hospital managers to maintain the status quo.

Am I the only person who thinks the hideous comments and tight Danny comments are worse than the OP using the phrase "too posh to push"?

I think, and said, I think they are incredibly ill judged. However someone saying childbirth is 'hideous', may be a symptom of something as well as a judgement whereas saying 'too posh to push' is purely judgemental. I don't think its right to say it without proper context and thought as it is quite ignorant and is liable to cause offence. But I think the use of the word is something of a potential red flag to deeper feelings that someone might need help with at a later date. They might be a twat or they might be someone a bit more vulnerable than they first appear.

Personally it took me many years to openly say I was afraid of childbirth, because I do feel that to do so can be seen and feel like a sign of weakness and to be 'unwomanly'. Its easy to be slightly rude and defensive about it in a way - I spent years saying I didn't want children for example - rather than confess what was really going on. I'm not saying its right but it underlines the taboo of admitting you have a problem as there is an attitude that 'everyone gets scared just get on with it' and a lack of awareness that it is a legitimate problem that you can seek help for.

I think its wise to take such comments with a pinch of salt and realise that it might not be as simple as you think.

Overall I think you have to give the benefit of the doubt and I think we need to create a culture where women can talk openly and honestly about the subject of maybe choosing an ELCS without fear of being judged. It would help women who both have a VB against the backdrop of those feelings and those who do have an ELCS.

That's just reminded me to do my pelvic floor!!! Lol!

MrsPeabody My mum certainly gave the impression that it was, but she was very pissed off about it when telling me.

I think in that situation it's just smile and nod. I have had 5 vaginal births and to be totally honest I have no idea if it has had an effect on tightness or anything else, dh hasbt complained and I don't feel like there is any issue. BUT my sister had a c section first time (baby in distress) then was practically forced into vbac and it was horrific 4th degree tear it sounded far far worse than the c section.

YABU

What muminhants said.

I bloody hate the phrase "too posh to push". I had to have an EMCS after hours of back to back labour when DS became distressed and his oxygen level dropped dangerously low. On hearing that I'd had a c section a so called friend sent me a text saying "too posh to push?" It made me cry and I felt like a failure. I still do 4 years on.

I'm pg again and seriously considering an elective section and, you know what, one of the reasons I am considering it is because it will prevent any lasting damage to my pelvic area. Why shouldn't I consider that as a factor? As PP have said some ladies suffer very severe damage from a vaginal birth which may impact their health, self esteem and, yes, their sex lives for years. It's as valid a consideration as someone saying they don't want a c-section because they don't want a scar.

Ah worried I had a horrific bank to back labour and forceps/huge tear with ds 1. Awful. 16 months later had ds 2 and have had worse period pain. Absolute breeze so you never know.

However I think it's any woman's absolute right to give birth how the hell she chooses and it's totally her business. Just like feeding.

People are dicks.

This reminds me of my SIL. When she was pregnant she was telling me how she'd only let her PFB eat organic home-made food for the first 3 years. Last time I saw her DD (aged just under 2yo) she was sitting on the floor stuffing her face with chocolate buttons and crisps

What really gets to me is that despite knowing in my gut that I'd probably prefer an elective c-section there is a little voice in my head that says "you have to try and do it yourself , you have to try and do it yourself" A similar voice nagged at me with breastfeeding too.

Personally I think we should have been fitted with a zip!

Worriedmum you are in exactly the same situation as me. I'm going with an ELCS (well final consultant appt at 36 weeks but I will not be moved!).

The inner voice is a bitch. Do what feels right for you.

I was the best parent ever before I had kids. I also knew exactly how to give birth, ended up doing both birth and parenting quite differently in the end.

YABU

Each birth is so different you can't plan and don't know what will happen.

With DC1 I had a ventouse delivery which meant being cut and needing stitches. The recovery was long and uncomfortable and not something anyone seemed to talk about. With DC2 I had a water birth which went fairly quickly and painlessly but when I got out of water I had a third degree tear - whisked to theatre, epidural and stitched again!

A very sympathetic midwife was looking after me and said to me off the record that if I had more children to insist on a section as she had her first child vaginally and had a 3rd degree tear, followed by 2nd child and a 4th degree tear. This left her incontinent and she wouldn't wish that on anyone. Obviously this doesn't always happen but I was grateful she shared her distressing experience with me and have never forgotten her words.

As it happened DC3 was an emergency section and I then chose to have DC4&5 by elective section. I am now expecting DC6 who will also be an elective section. I feel more in control and have recovered better. It is a CHOICE and every woman should be supported in what they choose.

I had an ELCS for DC3 and - 100% honesty here - it was my favourite out of my three deliveries. DC1 was a VB, DC2 was an EMCS.

The ELCS was so relaxed. I got to choose the day, I even had a hand in choosing the time (I asked to be second on the theatre list, barring any emergencies). We had music playing. I got to see DS as soon as he was lifted up. The surgeon left a long length of cord on so that DH could do the symbolic cutting of the cord bit. I got to hold him within two minutes of him being born and we had skin to skin while I was stitched up followed by hours and hours of skin to skin in recovery. I BF'd him. I even got to watch the operation via the very shiny, reflective metal disc in the middle of the big theatre light.

I was up on my feet next morning and a member of the ward staff walked with me to the shower, had a shower on my own with her waiting in the corridor in case I needed her, then she walked back with me. And that was that, pottering around by myself from then on. I went out for a pub meal when he was a week old, was driven there but got to wear real clothes and sat at the dining table with no issues. Went shopping when he was around ten days, had plenty of rest breaks and DH did all the carrying. He went back to work after two weeks and I was fine doing a scaled down version of my normal routine including the school run. By the 6wk check I was more or less back to normal.

I'd recommend an ELCS to anyone considering it as an option and I think OP that YABU.

We should be supporting the fact that we all have a choice rather than playing childbirth top trumps.

YABU, and so was she.

muminhants what a top quality post. Keep cutting and pasting that all over MN every time this comes up.

OP - YABU but you already know that, I think.

I think it's just worth noting that repeat sections do have risks associated with them.

I always pop up to say this as a friend of mine nearly bled to death when she was pregnant again after 3 sections. The baby lived, and so did she, but it was touch and go and she had to have a hysterectomy: she very nearly died. The complications she suffered were directly linked to repeat sections.

Women need to be aware of the risks and benefits of ALL types of delivery, not assume that vaginal birth is lovely, all fairies and unicorns (because, as posters here have told us, it can go very wrong), or that vaginal birth is terrible (because even though it can go wrong it can be straightforward with a negligible recovery time), or that CS is the solution to all woes (see above: can have frightening complications) or that having a CS means you have failed 'as a woman' (bullshit).

Each birth needs to be considered on its merits.

She does sound clueless.

I much preferred the idea of vaginal birth for myself. Luckily I had no problems due to no skill of my own just chance. Seeing the mums on the ward who had had cesarean confirmed my preference for me and that a C was no easy option.

However I think each to their own (not including those who need a C for medical reasons). I advocate c section being available on demand for all women once they have been given all the info.

I also think epidurals should be given to any women who wish for them without the massive arguments and attempts at persuasion I have heard about. Again sufficient info should be given in advance, not during, although of course a woman can change her mind at any time. Again an epidural is something I didn't want and didn't have myself.

I've had two elective C-sections.

yes, there were risks... but the risks were more quantifiable than a natural birth. And it was easier to plan (my DH was quite some distance away in both cases)

There is no right or wrong answer and what someone else thinks is right for them should not have any bearing on what you think is / was right for you.

Ackowledge / ignore as you wish and move on. Her choices do not and can not ever affect your choices when it comes to childbirth.

I had a childless know it all colleague tell me this when I was pregnant with #2.

I was adamant when I found out I was pregnant again that I would have a vaginal birth as I felt so guilty about #1's crash section birth, so I was gutted when I was advised to have a section by my consultant. She told me to look on the bright side because "its mingin' that you bleed for weeks after a normal birth" and that "I wouldn't need to worry about ripping" .

Then again my Mum 'jokingly' pointed out that I had 2 kids and had never given birth at a family get together, hahahaha so you get it from all angles really.
Some people really are just eejits but heyho let them have their own thoughts.

Then again my Mum 'jokingly' pointed out that I had 2 kids and had never given birth at a family get together.

That joke is as old as Shakespeare. And it was a clunky, unfunny plot device then!

We should be supporting the fact that we all have a choice rather than playing childbirth top trumps.

This, this and a thousand times this...

Definitely agree that we should have a zip. Or a pouch, kangaroo-style where they crawl out when tiny and grow on the outside. But I suspect we are several million millenia before we evolve that way!

I've never understood why childbirth is meant to be "natural" (read "painful") when you'd get an anesthetic or painkillers for anything else.