to not trust this 'helpful' stranger in the mountains?

[SummerOfLadybirds]

I've fallen out with a close friend and want to know who was BU.
We went camping in Lake District recently. We're experienced hikers so had all correct gear, provisions, torches, map, compass etc. We planned to stay in proper campsites as my friend hates wild camping. On 2nd day decided to leave marked routes as felt confident we could navigate. (The paths are too busy in good weather, we both wanted to hike in wilderness). At first it was fine, we went high up and didn't see anyone for hours. To cut a long story short we then lost the compass, got disorientated and got lost!! My friend started freaking out and worrying we'd have to camp in mountains if we couldn't find way down. I said that was fine, we had tent, food, clothes etc, we could set up camp and find way down in morning but she said she wanted a shower and a proper loo (and was scared of 'ghosts'!) I said its too dangerous to try and descend once its dark, she got in a massive strop.

Meanwhile for a couple of hours, despite seeing nobody all day, we'd both noticed a man in camouflage gear popping up in different places nearby. Once he was in front of us, once he was chilling by a rock, another time he was behind us. He didn't acknowledge us but he wasn't that close. We assumed he was just enjoying nature, going in same direction as us.

When the light began to fade, my friend got really scared and insisted we keep walking and suddenly we almost bumped into this man as we came around a boulder!! He said hi and asked where we were going, my friend started to blurt out we were lost, but I didn't want to seem vulnerable so I cut in and said 'we're not really lost' and made out she was joking. He was friendly but something didn't feel quite right and I felt we WERE vulnerable, 2 petite women and this guy (he was very tall and muscular, had a big army-style rucksack and just seemed a bit 'odd'). He offered to guide us down but I was worried he might lead us somewhere even more remote, so I told him thanks but we didn't need his help and was very assertive in not wanting to walk with him.
We carried on, I was freaked out now because of the man, and my friend was petrified of being on mountain in night and not speaking to me because i'd refused his help.
Anyway we did make it off the mountain (in the dark) and finally got to a campsite at 2am.

My friend is still furious that I wouldn't let this man help us. I still think he could have done anything to us, like leading us further off-route in the dark and raping us.

At least you have a good story, this did make me lol!

I think it was right for the OP to listen to her instincts. Whether they were right or wrong, no one will ever know.

A close family member was sexually assaulted after she accepted help from a stranger. It fucked her up for years.

lk26 Wed 15-Apr-15 11:58:59
Who usually carries spare compasses though ?

Its standard practice for everyone in a group to carry one. So they should have had two between them. Or had an alternative backup at least.

Yes, OP, you could have potentially put a strain on mountain rescue resources. You were up a hill at night - one with very clear paths at that - yet still managed to get lost.

One pp asked who carries a spare compass with them. Well, someone who is unable to find their way off one of the most-walked mountains in the Lakes certainly should.

If this really played out as you say, OP, then I am at a loss as to why you didn't follow one of the very well-trodden paths off the Old Man as soon as it started getting dark and it was apparent you were lost.

Also, the Old Man is unlike most of the Lakeland fells in that it's strewn with old chains, workings, and mining relics. Pretty hard to lose your way when there's such obvious landmarks.

I also wonder how you didn't see anyone for hours, given that the Old Man was probably busier than Bluewater for most of the Easter break.

Hmm.

I totally understand you didnt want to walk with him, that's different from asking his opinion on where you were on the map because you were clearly pretty muddled on best way to go (it can happen to anyone). This is the part I'm saying YABU on.

If you're 100% sure that he could have told you nothing to help you get back sooner (not even the best place to call a taxi from?), then fair enough, yanbu.

I'm never quite sure what to do with a compass but I always carry one

I certainly don't profess to be an experienced hiker though. We stick to well marked routes and good weather, have maps a plenty and a Garmin gps as well as mobiles and walking books and always set off early so we get back in good light. We always carry waterproofs and extra layers too.

Having said that I got lost on the South Downs Way once which is essentially a fairly straight chalk path running east to west The mist descended really quickly and as I joined the path, I simply could not work out which was the right direction back to the car park. It wasn't a pleasant feeling.

Coniston Mountain Rescue have had 13 callouts this year alone, the latest one on Monday to a couple that got lost in mist on The Old Man and it took 20 people (all volunteers) to get them down safely.

If either of you have an iPhone running a fairly up to date version of iOS it comes with a compass app built in.

Personally I think you were both utterly stupid and reckless.

If anyone would like to make a donation to Coniston MR, you can do so here

Okay, I'm normally one for "trust your instincts" but in this instance (one of you instinctively fears ghosts), I think I'd not entirely trust your instincts.

For future reference - your best options were (a) camp or (b) accept the bloke's offer. "Wander around lost in the dark at 2.00am" was not a good choice.

And I say this as someone who has spent several unscheduled nights in bbivvy bags and the like when, for instance, mist came down when we were trying to descend glaciers in the Alps - sitting it out is usually the safe choice if you can make yourselves warm while you do so. I've also been a "fly on the wall" (or at least in the next room) when two members of my university climbing club were given a bollocking by mountain rescue for being bloody stupid - I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that.

Anyway, the main thing is to learn from it. I think anyone who's done a lot of walking and/or mountaineering has at least one map reading error story (mine led to forcing a group of my colleagues to ford a stream in the semi-darkness in winter - my navigation was probably only out by about 100m, but it was enough to get us into the wrong stream valley coming down off the moors... strangely enough none of them has ever gone walking with me again). But the trick is to work out what went wrong and how not to repeat it. That might mean, for instance, booking yourself on an outdoor ed course on navigation (there are usually good courses run through local YHA hostels).

If this story is true, then you are not "experienced hikers". You are naive idiots who should burn their tents forthwith. You are the type of people who get trapped halfway up ben nevis in shorts and t-shirts when the weather closes in.

"I don't think I explained myself very well in original post. We've both hiked for years (including winter camping) but have rarely needed to navigate, we normally hike with people who are good at this."

Surely this post explains very clearly why you were too inexperienced to attempt what you attempted.

OMG, I have had the best laugh, until the bit where the OP has her hand on a knife!

OP, I cannot understand why you and your friend even go walking in the hills, when you are both so timid and nervous. You sound like you are terrified anywhere but a very controlled environment, so if it wasn't a scary man in combat gear offering to help you that set you both off, it could have been a sheep appearing out of the mist (a "ghost sheep") or a big rock that looked like a monster, or anything really.

You sound utterly ditzy and an embarrassment to all those people, petite women included, who enjoy hill walking alone or in company.

You know you could find yourself on your own with a scarily dressed man anywhere? Such as a city street, or a local path? How do you cope? In fact, your chances of being attacked on a mountain are probably much less as (a) the man is less likely to have been an attacker - hanging about mountainsides in case a petite lost woman comes his way seems unlikely and if it had happened before, it would be in the news and (b) there are so many other walkers about the Lake District that are likely to be helpful, if you'd screamed, you'd probably be more likely to be rescued.

This is why I think it's much safer to go walking in the winter!
In the summer the hills are full of tourists with their hands on their swiss army knives!

Out of interest, OP, forget the compass for a moment. Can you look at an OS map and read the contours well enough to visualise the landscape and orient yourself within it in good visibility? Because if you can't do that, you really do need to go on some sort of course. I've been out with "all the gear and no idea" types and watched them fish out a compass, waffle on for several minutes facing in entirely the wrong direction, before pointing out to them that the rock face we were looking for was in fact the entirely bloody obvious one right behind them - which I could tell because I can read a map. Compasses are an invaluable aid in bad visibility, or very amorphous featureless landscapes, but there's much more to reading a map than just taking bearings (talking of which, you do know how to correct magnetic north, don't you? Easy acronym if you can remember: "Grid to mag, add, mag to grid get rid (i.e. subtract).")

I would always go with your gut feeling.

'I cannot understand why you and your friend even go walking in the hills, when you are both so timid and nervous'

TheChandler, I am neither nervous nor timid and have been hiking for more than 10 years, sometimes alone. In all this time I have never felt afraid of another hiker (or a sheep or monster-rock for that matter!) I don't appreciate being called 'ditzy' for not trusting a stranger, when my instinct was telling me something about him was dangerous. I've re-hashed it over and over in my head trying to analyse why I found him a threat, but can't pinpoint anything specific. Apart from my sudden fear when we came face to face, he was just an ordinary-looking guy, the type I've often chatted to in fells. Maybe it was an expression in his eyes, or something in his voice, or the way in which he offered help. Something just felt 'wrong'.

'You know you could find yourself on your own with a scarily dressed man anywhere? Such as a city street, or a local path? How do you cope?'

I have found myself on my own with a lone male many times, including in fells and on footpaths, and have never felt afraid like this. Normally I would be more wary of a male stranger in a city than in countryside.

However I think its naive to assume that just because we were in the fells, the man was no threat. The danger of such an isolated environment is he could have attacked us, no-one would have heard us scream (hadn't seen any other hikers all day), there is nowhere to run to, and you cannot call 999 and wait for police to help. If he'd attacked us our only option would have been to fight back and overpower him, and given his size this would have been difficult. If someone physically assaulted me in mountains I would not hesitate to use anything to hand in self-defence.

Lurcio, I can map-read without a compass but obviously not as well as I thought I could. Once we got disorientated in the cloud I couldn't match landscape to map. I agree, an orienteering course is a good idea. If I've learned anything from this experience it's that I need to brush up on my mountain skills! (And not to go hiking with friends who won't wild camp in an emergency!)

I sometimes wonder that in potentially dangerous situations it's people with 'some' experience who are the most likely to get into trouble.

People who are experts will likely be fine.
People who have no bloody clue will probably not even attempt to do foolish things (although, of course they do - trainers and a mars bar up Ben Nevis type tails)
But people who think they know what they are up to but kind of don't are probably the worst. Take skiing - it's usually the spirited amateur who are the ones to go off piste and start an avalanche etc.

I do think the OP (and many of us) may fall into that category.
You should have taken my DD OP. She is 11 and has had all the mountain safety and navigation and first aiding drummed into her at guide camps. I asked her what she would have done in your situation and she gave a really sensible answer. But her first question was "why didn't the other lady have her compass and why hadn't they told people where they were planning on going?"

footle, am pretty certain that's apocryphal...you hear it a lot in cities about subway systems

you do not need credit, but if you have no signal bugger all dialling will get you anywhere.

(emergency calls will be routed via any provider though, so not sure if you mean that)

He could have just been going in same direction but he seemed to stop when we did and it unnerved me the way he kept popping up unexpectedly as if he knew which way we'd pass and was lying in wait. BTW we weren't going in a circle, we knew the vague direction.
This really doesn't make any sense.
If you were heading in the same predictable direction, then the only way he could keep popping up, would be if he sprinted past you from time to time to hide further along your route.
If he was going in the same direction, then did you keep passing each other? Doesn't really seem to add up if you were on the mountain for hours. If you were really walking in the right vague direction, you would have been back before 2am.
You were lost, couldn't read a map and had no compass. I cannot imagine the route you took!

112 works just the same as 999 - I don't think there is any difference. The call will go through any available network but there does need to a network iykwim.

You can text on 112 , you can't on 999

And it uses any network , not just your own

Sorry, I should have said you needs to register first