to not trust this 'helpful' stranger in the mountains?

[SummerOfLadybirds]

I've fallen out with a close friend and want to know who was BU.
We went camping in Lake District recently. We're experienced hikers so had all correct gear, provisions, torches, map, compass etc. We planned to stay in proper campsites as my friend hates wild camping. On 2nd day decided to leave marked routes as felt confident we could navigate. (The paths are too busy in good weather, we both wanted to hike in wilderness). At first it was fine, we went high up and didn't see anyone for hours. To cut a long story short we then lost the compass, got disorientated and got lost!! My friend started freaking out and worrying we'd have to camp in mountains if we couldn't find way down. I said that was fine, we had tent, food, clothes etc, we could set up camp and find way down in morning but she said she wanted a shower and a proper loo (and was scared of 'ghosts'!) I said its too dangerous to try and descend once its dark, she got in a massive strop.

Meanwhile for a couple of hours, despite seeing nobody all day, we'd both noticed a man in camouflage gear popping up in different places nearby. Once he was in front of us, once he was chilling by a rock, another time he was behind us. He didn't acknowledge us but he wasn't that close. We assumed he was just enjoying nature, going in same direction as us.

When the light began to fade, my friend got really scared and insisted we keep walking and suddenly we almost bumped into this man as we came around a boulder!! He said hi and asked where we were going, my friend started to blurt out we were lost, but I didn't want to seem vulnerable so I cut in and said 'we're not really lost' and made out she was joking. He was friendly but something didn't feel quite right and I felt we WERE vulnerable, 2 petite women and this guy (he was very tall and muscular, had a big army-style rucksack and just seemed a bit 'odd'). He offered to guide us down but I was worried he might lead us somewhere even more remote, so I told him thanks but we didn't need his help and was very assertive in not wanting to walk with him.
We carried on, I was freaked out now because of the man, and my friend was petrified of being on mountain in night and not speaking to me because i'd refused his help.
Anyway we did make it off the mountain (in the dark) and finally got to a campsite at 2am.

My friend is still furious that I wouldn't let this man help us. I still think he could have done anything to us, like leading us further off-route in the dark and raping us.

[SummerOfLadybirds]

I lost compass halfway through day, so we'd been trying to navigate without it (in mist) for several hours already. I genuinely thought friend would agree to camp once light started fading. By the time it was properly dark the mist had cleared so visibility was better at night than it had been in afternoon. Otherwise we would have had no choice but to camp (and probably sat up all night keeping watch for man!)

[Runningupthathill82]

You're more determined than me - I think if I hadn't got into Coniston til 11pm, I wouldn't have made it much further than the Sun Inn!

[HairyMcMary]

You must have been exhausted!

[OrlandoWoolf]

They do have taxis in the Lake District.

[Balaboosta]

So here's a new angle. OP and friend just turned down the threesome of their lives. Hot man in camo gear... Remote location... Two good friends... Sounds full of promise to me.

[CaspianSea]

Glad you made up with your friend OP! Interesting she found the man odd as well and admitted you made right decision not to trust him. I do think intuition is a useful tool to alert us to potential danger. Maybe you both picked up on subtle cues about his behaviour/responses/eye movements that put you on high-alert.

[TheChandler]

Sheesh. 13 pages for a relatively uneventful, if drawn out, day on the hills. Considering the number of hillwalkers up there, imagine if they all posted about slightly more exciting days. Mumnset would be inundated.

Did you take a picture of camouflage-man, OP? Did you have your phone and did it not work as a compass?

[intheenddotcom]

Tourists!

I'm a tiny woman and live in the Lakes. I hike on my own all the time and have never worried about being attacked and have never been attacked. Do you think that all the rapists and murderers just hang around on mountain tops waiting for lost women?!

The vast majority of people are helpful and friendly. I stopped a couple the other day just to check they knew that it was quite a way to the summit when it was starting to get dark. He probably realised you were lost tourists and wanted to help rather than having you call out mountain rescue from their beds in the middle of the night.

You are also clearly not all that experienced. You should be able to navigate in anything but fog/dark/whiteout without the compass if you can navigate well.

For future reference there's no real 'wilderness' in the Lakes. There are only a few small valleys that don't have a road or houses/farms. In all but a few cases if lost in good weather in the Lakes head down to the valley bottom then follow the road. If you end up in a valley without a road, follow the valley (in the direction the water is flowing) down to where it means another, bigger valley then find the road and next time stick the the nice signposted footpaths down low.

I'm sorry for the rant but having quite a few friends in MR I know how annoying it is for them to be dragged from their families to go find yet another lot of 'experienced' hikers who think that the mountains are just a bigger version of their local park.

[OrlandoWoolf]

I just want to know how you convinced your friend to walk from Coniston to Ambleside at 11pm.

Please don't say you walked on the road. It's a narrow windy road.

[Lweji]

You are also clearly not all that experienced. You should be able to navigate in anything but fog/dark/whiteout without the compass if you can navigate well.

To be fair, the OP said that most of the day had been with fog. :)

[intheenddotcom]

Missed that bit Lweji. Fair enough.

That's why it's always good to have a backup - I always carry a Silva compass (for most of my nav), a Garmin GPS (for backup and tracking my route), my phone (can use GPS in an emergency) and my first aid kit has one of those 'novelty' sized compasses that would at least give me a rough north if needed.

[CaspianSea]

'I hike on my own all the time and have never worried about being attacked and have never been attacked. Do you think that all the rapists and murderers just hang around on mountain tops waiting for lost women'

This attitude really puzzles me. No-one is saying the mountains are teaming with rapists and murderers. But to claim anyone you meet in LD mountains is friendly and helpful strikes me as naive and foolhardy. What if OP and friend had followed this man, who OP felt wary of, assuming he was trustworthy, only to be attacked in an even more isolated spot, where their bodies could have remained hidden for weeks, giving him ample time to get away. How do we even know this man was a local? He could have been anyone. He could have been a tourist. He could have been a drug-addict, or a paranoid schizophrenic, or an escaped criminal hiding out somewhere remote. I appreciate people want to think their beloved local area does not have dangerous people in it, but this is fanciful. Just because you have never been attacked doesn't mean it won't happen to someone at some point.

[intheenddotcom]

I didn't say everyone is friendly and helpful - I said the vast majority are. There is a difference. Doesn't matter if the person is local or otherwise - most people are not trying to kill you. I know there are dangerous people wherever you live - I lived through a guy from my village going around shooting people on a whim - do I constantly think that all men driving around in cars are therefore going to shoot me? No.

I don't understand the mentality of going around assuming the worst in everyone and everything. I don't know the statistics but I have never heard of someone being attacked by a stranger in the mountains - falling off a cliff, avalanche, car broken into - yes.

Better to ask the guy where you are on the map so you can easily get yourself off the mountain rather than pretend your not lost and continue bumbling around in the dark.

[OrlandoWoolf]

caspian

It was foggy.They were lost. Off the beaten track. You probably couldn't be in a more vulnerable situation. If he wanted to attack them, then a refusal of help wouldn't have put a potential attacker off.


Just because you have never been attacked doesn't mean it won't happen to someone at some point.

Never heard of attacks in the mountains. However mountain rescue have heard of plenty of people who have got lost and out of their depth in mountains.

[UptheChimney]

I walk alone a lot in various walking areas. It has never occurred to me to think that the people I pass by, stop to chat with, ask about the wind speed on the fell top or whatever, are actually going to attack me.

I suppose I would reason that it takes a lot of effort to get up Fairfield or Helvellyn or the Old Man (although how anyone could get lost there I don't know) and there are easier ways & places to attack women.

Like in their homes, sadly ...

[UptheChimney]

I lived through a guy from my village going around shooting people on a whim

Oh intheenddotcom that was an awful time, wasn't it? I used to live a bit south of there, but I remember how shocked my whole village was...

[TheCatsMother99]

Whether you're out walking, waiting for a cab at the taxi rank or anywhere for that matter, if you get a feeling (rightly or wrongly so) that something may not be right I always think it's best to trust your instinct.

You might turn out to be completely bonkers and had nothing to worry about but better to be safe then sorry IMO.

[AnyRailway]

OP, it's good you and your friend have been able to talk.

This thread, I think, was never about whether or not you should have gone down the mountain in the dark or camped. (I have no opinion about that, because I am not an expert on walking on mountains). It was about whether or not you should have trusted a bloke you felt uneasy about.

I wonder if the answers you got on this thread would have been different if you had been lost in central London, or at a bus stop near a village somewhere.

This thread seems to be full of people who want to prove how much they know about hiking on mountains.

It's interesting that your friend also felt uneasy. When I first read your original post, I wondered if she too was subconsciously worried about your would -be rescuer, and was transferring her unsettled feeling onto ghosts and lack of proper loo etc.

I recommended a book called "The Gift of Fear " (by Gavin De Becker) earlier on this thread. It's a very easy read, and very interesting. A friend suggested I should read it, after I was attacked by a man I had been worried about - I had ignored my instincts and told myself I was being irrational and unfair to him.

I still think you made the right decision.

[OrlandoWoolf]

I wonder if the answers you got on this thread would have been different if you had been lost in central London, or at a bus stop near a village somewhere

The thing about being lost in London or at a bus stop is that you can wait for help. The alternative options are not dangerous.

On the mountains, alternative options like wandering around lost with no compass in the dark are very dangerous.

[CaspianSea]

'On the mountains, alternative options like wandering around lost with no compass in the dark are very dangerous.'

Not if visibility is good and there are no hidden cliff-faces to fall off. Remember OP had an expedition tent so could have camped and stayed warm at any point.
Trusting a stranger (who made them feel nervous and uneasy) was IMO the riskier option. Even if they'd asked for directions there's no guarantee he would have directed them the right way!

[StaceyAndTracey]

Getting lost on a london street is a totally different situation and has a different risk assessment . I'm suprised that people can't see this .

If the OP had posted " should I go into a shop in London and ask for directions or accept the help of a lone man who approached me and offered to take me down a dark alley ? "

Everyone woudl have said to do the first .

[BonzoDooDah]

SummerofLadyBirds I just want to say I think you were completely right to not accept help if you felt something was wrong. I have quite often had that feeling and have been right in some way or another about the person. (And I completely understand how prepared you were for a night on the hills - in fact I am in awe of you carrying all that stuff and still hiking that long and far)

Not to completely freak you out but this is a story told by a friend. (Disclaimer it was about 20 years ago she told me so details may not be completely right)
She and her friend were on a walking holiday on Skye. Lots of day walks out. This one day her friend was feeling dodgy and didn't want to go out with her - but my friend thought she'd go anyway as, like you, she was a confident walker and wasn't worried about being on the hills alone.
She did a short walk then stopped at a cafe. In there she was on a table on her own drinking tea and reading her book or the newspaper. A man came and sat at her table with her. He spooked her. She could never say why. Something about him.
Anyway she decided not to go walking on her own that afternoon after all and stuck to the town.
When she got home (years before mobile phones and internet) her family were freaked out as a lone female walker had been killed that week on Skye. The man was eventually caught and it was the man at her table in the cafe.
I am completely aware this sounds like made-up cliched bollocks but it is as true as I can remember and I really trusted the friend telling the story. (She had absolutely no reason to lie)
No matter what you need to do to protect yourself - do it. Sometimes your subconscious can pick up body language signals from people that you are not aware you had noticed. There are always times we get it wrong but I'd rather err on the side of caution and be able to tell the tale of "how silly I was being".