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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBM to not let ds2 4 wear his Elsa dress out anymore due to twattish sniggering parents

610 replies

NellysKnickers · 13/04/2015 16:00

Ds2s hero is Elsa. He loves her and Frozen. He also loves mud, dinosaurs, trains and his bike. He wore his Elsa dress to pick up ds1 from school today. I'm shocked by the amount of parents giggling and pointing, I expected a bit from kids who dont know any better but adults? ?? I'm torn between being upset and wanting to pinch them in the face ( obviously I would never do this in reality) Why is it that people think it's ok to laugh at someone a little bit different, Dh just says they are a bit thick!

OP posts:
ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 13/04/2015 18:49

Why are people so desperate to hold on to these ridiculous gendered norms of boys clothes/girls clothes? Do we really think the fabric of society will crumble if people just wear what the hell they want and like? Why does it disgust people to see a boy in a dress? Please do try and articulate why it's such a taboo for you?

Devora · 13/04/2015 18:50

Home, Devora is the Jewish version of Deborah Smile

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it's not so simple as saying, "Well, don't let your child stick out and they won't get laughed at." My children stick out for reasons that are beyond their control. Some of the reasons are beyond my control, too. Knowing this (and having myself been a child from a 'wierd' family) I certainly don't want to make life harder for them. In fact, I've probably been more inclined to let them do stuff that allows them to fit in with their peers than many MNetters would.

However, the simple truth is that however much she or I want my youngest to be just like her peers, she is black and has two mums and is adopted. I wouldn't be any kind of mum if I didn't believe that the world should just grow up and let her get on with being her own individual self. I don't care if it's not the norm; children in my family have struggled for four generations with not being 'normal' and my job is to help change the world as well as to prepare her for the world as it is. I'm not going to teach her to be ashamed of who she is and though my approach is generally calm and consensus-driven, if I have to be like a mother tiger to sort out some nonsense then I will.

Frankly, I'm delighted that there are mothers out there who think it's important for little boys to be able to wear Elsa dresses if they want to. You may see them as attention-seeking; I see them as people who are making a small but significant contribution to making a society that considers it bad manners to tell boys that dressing as girls is embarrassing and shameful. My kids don't have to dress as anything to be different - I think they have no desire to stand out as any more different than they already are - but how great that other kids are getting the opportunity to indulge their desire for glitter and sparkle.

laughingcow13 · 13/04/2015 18:50

would your views be the same if it was a 4 year old girl in an ironman or spiderman costume?

The social norm is that females wear trousers but males do not wear dresses

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 13/04/2015 18:50

Solomon, you really are rude. Everybody lives in an area where people 'judge' and some do it verbally. Many don't show it by word or action. To make assumptions of judgement based on where people live is just stupid.

Sootgremlin · 13/04/2015 18:52

My ds wanted to go for a walk in the woods as Batman the other week, I let him. It's not my choice that I'm imposing on him! I didn't go as Wonder Woman, I went as Generic Mum no. 413 in my stripy top and jeans, like the boring adult I am.

I don't encourage him wearing dress-up stuff out, he asks to, but I certainly don't discourage him not giving a monkeys at his age what people think. He's got time enough for that. He still hasn't realised some people are small minded shits, and long may it continue, it won't last forever.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 13/04/2015 18:55

Women haven't been wearing trousers for very long. Social norms change, they develop and adapt. There is not a single reason a boy can't wear a dress except for 'I'm not used to seeing it so it makes me feel weird'.

SolomanDaisy · 13/04/2015 18:55

She said herself that it happens where she lives, no assumptions necessary. And the whole continent isn't actually full of twats, so it doesn't happen everywhere.

I rather think the people who describe a four year old wearing a dress as 'revolting' are the rude ones.

RoseWithAThorn · 13/04/2015 18:57

why would you tell a child they can't do something they want to, that is no harm to anyone, purely because others might make fun

Hmm to protect them from being ridiculed? This thread is as mad as a box of frogs. Thank goodness I live rurally as my children would be poor little souls not allowed outside to play in dressing up outfits. DS's tried it once and nearly hung himself from the tree house playing Spider-Man. Never again.

Micah · 13/04/2015 18:57

Has anyone told the scots men can't wear skirts yet?

Or is it ok if they're over 18?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 13/04/2015 18:59

Jelly... of course it doesn't matter what your son wears. Onesie suit probably very practical. People tend to smile at small children in them - not so adults wearing them outside.

Most people don't comment at anything they see - I'm one of those. I don't care what people wear, inwardly I might think, 'Crikey', but I wouldn't do or say anything to draw attention to that thought.

Why do so many posters think that others actually pass comment or verbal judgement on what they're doing? If it doesn't impact another person I find that most people just don't care. Is that the problem? Is it that it's not enough to ignore peoples' clothing, you actually need to pass a comment on it and that comment had better damn well be positive? Not going to happen.

Tolerance is a very good thing - and to me - it's silent and accepting, not forming a cheerleading squad, not for this. Childrens' clothing is just not a big enough issue for me to get excited about. I do agree with the poster(s) though who said that girls can wear girl/boy clothing interchangeably and it's not the same the other way around. I think that has come down to practicability as another poster said.

Whathaveilost · 13/04/2015 19:00

Round where I live you would be known as the 'alternative mum' The one that likes to show everyone that she is unconventional and will use her kid to do so.
Not saying you are but these things are remembered for a long time.
You see in my area, people don't do this to their kids. I mean they wouldn't go to the school gates in fancy dress and certainly wouldn't let a wee lad go out in a princess's frock.

You cracking on and carry on though.

ApocalypseThen · 13/04/2015 19:00

The social norm is that females wear trousers but males do not wear dresses

So what? It's a stupid norm, why should anyone be constrained by it? It makes no sense at all. It's just fabric cut into different shapes.

Quitelikely · 13/04/2015 19:03

Ok I might get shot here but there is just no way on earth that I would let my son roam the streets in a dress. Full stop. I just wouldn't.

Why would I?

I understand you didn't do anything illegal but it is out with social norms and therefore you are going to draw attention to the situation, especially on the school run.

Sootgremlin · 13/04/2015 19:04

Because, at 4, his mum telling him that people would laugh at him and he can't wear it would hurt him more than someone he doesn't know raising an eyebrow, which he probably wouldn't even notice.

My ds hasn't been out of the house dressed as a princess because he hasn't asked. I would have a dilemma if he did, certainly, I may well discourage him if it came to it and dislike myself a bit for it. Or maybe I would give him a thorough briefing about what to expect and let him carry on, because there will be a lot of things stupid people might at laugh at him about over his life time, and nothing is really gained by altering yourself to fit in with them.

Confidence is the most important thing a child can have, and parents are the ones who have the most power to instil it or take it away.

MrsFring · 13/04/2015 19:07

Beautiful post, Devora.

Move to Brighton, OP. We do the school run starck bollock-naked round these parts.

Devora · 13/04/2015 19:09

Whathaveilost, I AM the 'alternative mum'. We have no choice but to be the alternative family, unless you think (as many do) that gay people shouldn't choose to have children, or that black and white people shouldn't make a family together, or that children shouldn't be adopted.

Being alternative is our reality, not a pose put on to create an impact. Believe me, I am not by nature someone who likes to be different - in fact, I've spent a lifetime trying to fit in, but there is a bottom line where I can't compromise any further because it would be a denial of the truth.

And it truly does help if the parents around us aren't putting a high price on being as normal as possible. So cheers Wine to all the cross-dressing toddlers out there Grin

ICanSmellSummerComing · 13/04/2015 19:11

www.mrfoxmagazine.com/parenting/scandi-sense/

tell them to fuck off.

It was on news today highest suicide rate is from men over 40 or around 40

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32231774

They sited one reason as the ridiculous pressure on men to be macho etc.

NancyRaygun · 13/04/2015 19:11

YAY Devora I so agree.

Devora · 13/04/2015 19:11

I don't mean that I literally want to give anybody's pre-schooler alcohol, of course. That WOULD be wierd.

noseymcposey · 13/04/2015 19:12

So the people who judge do so on the basis that it's wrong to let little boys wear dresses because errr people will judge?

Opinions about general suitability of fancy dress for the school run aside, I haven't seen one reason given yet why boys shouldn't wear princess dresses that doesn't come back to the above.

Anyone care to offer a reason?

SantanaLopez · 13/04/2015 19:13

tell them to fuck off.

It was on news today highest suicide rate is from men over 40 or around 40

They sited one reason as the ridiculous pressure on men to be macho etc.

..... You're suggesting that the OP uses her preschooler as a tool to singlehandedly take on the crisis in men's mental health?

Madness.

florascotia · 13/04/2015 19:13

Micah Exactly what I was going to say. Just look at all the very favourable comments over the w/end about Andy Murray in his kilt. The Ancient Greeks and Romans wore skirts, too.

FWIW, many people think that the 'original' costume for prehistoric men and women in northern Eurasian/circumpolar climates was a long tunic for both, with trousers added for both in cold weather (for eg, see pictures of the Amazons on Greek vases).

NancyRaygun · 13/04/2015 19:13

"these things are remembered for a long time" where you live sounds super creepy TBH WhathaveIlost !

Sootgremlin · 13/04/2015 19:15

Yy noseymcposey.

VolumniaDedlock · 13/04/2015 19:18

this thread is awful

i am glad things seem different round here

there's a boy who goes to a playgroup that dd2 goes to. Each week he's the first into the dressing up box, putting on a princess dress. he's got a couple at home too. no-one bats an eyelid. his parents are pretty much the antithesis of the Stoke Newington/Brighton/Chorlton cooler than thou types, but just quietly accept that their boy likes a frock.