my apologies. .I genuinely would like to talk about body image and contradictions on mumsnet

[sorenoggin]

Seems my last post was misunderstood so am trying again.

Why is it okay on mums net and in real life for people to make jokes and disparaging remarks about men with small penises?

We would never condone a man slating or laughing at a woman's genitals on here so why is it okay the other way round?

Read this for the reality of what it is like for a man with a smaller penis and the huge emotional impact it has on his life

ughsocialjustice.com/post/107849865308/small-dicks-are-part-of-body-positivity
I Guess I just want to remind everyone that every time you laugh or joke about 'ignore him, he probably got a small dick ' you are adding to the pain of probably someone you know :(

BTW I also think that by respecting our men as people more we make it better for all of us.

I am wary about using real people, particularly children as examples- so please tell me not to if you want- but your son is not facing sexism. He is facing patriarchal expectations and ideology, which is damaging to women and to men. That's why men should support feminism- the abolition of the patriarchy would make life infinitely better for many of them too. But sadly , many others, and most of the powerful ones, benefit too much.

he is facing patriarchal expectations and ideology

... which manifest, in part, as derogatory comments about small penises. So, in supporting these comments, you are supporting patriarchal expectations and ideology.

Again I think we all agree that it isn't right or fair - just disagree about what to label it or how best to fight it.

I do think that boys and men are struggling here in the UK and that society is very unsure about what it means to be a boy/man.

I am glad that sexism against girls and women is still being fought - and I fight it myself - but I don't think we do ourselves any favours or will achieve our objectives if we allow men to suffer abuse - whether you call it sexism or otherwise.

I have now been on MN for far too long and need some fresh air and lunch! Thank you for this debate though.
And OP - YANBU- no-one should be ridiculed for their body.

Maryz- it doesn't make a difference to him- but it does make a difference to the discussion and how he is encouraged to address it.

Sourpotato- good point.

"I've seen people call an older man a dirty old pervert for being with a younger woman but call an older woman a dirty old pervert for being with a younger man and that's apparently ageist and sexist."

Eh?

I don't think I am really defending the use of the " small dick" thing. I don't personally use it. What I am saying is that it's not the same as the way women are defined and objectified by their appearance and bodies.

And I think the point about engelika's son (once again, tell me if you don't like this, engelika) is an important one. He is not the "victim" of sexism, but of the patriarchy.

If you're not defending it, you're doing a pretty good job of excusing it.

There is no excuse for body shaming someone just because of their behaviour.

Just call them out on their behaviour instead.

True. But I do find the "oh it's just the same for men" line unacceptable.

"I doubt very much whether engeika's son cares whether he is the victim of sexism or of the patriarchy or of whatever anyone wants to call it. If he or anyone like him was to read this thread he would see you say "body shaming of boys = excusable"."

Well, they would if they weren't very good at thinking.

And while of course engelika's son probably doesn't care, the distinction is a very important one when we are looking at the broader picture. Which we have to do if we wqnt to make the world better for everyone.

That was part of my attempt to explain how this sort of thing is different for men and women. A man will behave in a gittish manner and some people's response will be to say something about him having a small dick. Whereas a woman doesn't have to do anything more than merely exist for her to be put down and defined by her body shape or appearance.

Hakluyt, have you read the link given in the OP? I really advise you to if you haven't. It exemplifies very well how 'small dick' jibes can affect more than just the men they're aimed at.

I definitely agree that women are generally more likely to face criticism for their bodies. But I don't think the point of the OP was to say that men and women face equal amounts of body-shaming (although I admittedly didn't see the thread that was created before this one). I think the point of the OP was to argue that men can be equally damaged by body-shaming language as women. I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.

Yes, I did read it. I found him using "feminists and SJWs" in such a dismissive way in the first few sentences a turn off. I am sorry he has issues with his penis.

Really? I am genuinely sorry he has an issue with the size of his penis. But why did he start his article with an attack on feminists and SJWs as if they are the ones responsible for the big penis good, small penis bad mindset? As I said, he is a victim of the patriarchy which defines our society's view of masculinity. It's hard for men to see this because they get so much advantage out of the patriarchy- so when it impacts negatively on them thy look round for someone else to blame. Feminists and SJWs often being their first choice.

Fucking hell Hakluyt

If you truly did read it, you sound completely heartless.

As I said, he is a victim of the patriarchy which defines our society's view of masculinity.

Yes but he's also the victim of heartless cunts, both male and female who see nothing wrong with body shaming/excusing body shaming, because they're too thick/lazy to call someone on their actions.

Sorry, I don't respond to personal attacks. Happy to discuss. Not happy to be called a heartless cunt.

However, I notice you are not responding to me pointing out the writer's blaming of feminists and SWJs.............