To think that mumsnet is quite hostile about children and parents at the moment?

[Ubik1]

Perhaps it's the Easter holidays.

But bloody hell. Thread after thread of people tutting and hoiking bosoms over kids running about and screaming and behaving like...children.

I think most parents are doing their best and actually do a pretty good job.

Oh god, I am a year off 45, do I need to but those specs?

aaaagh, I am not judging people by their age, I am judging them by their tuttiness, and no not all tutters are 'old' (I am not bloody old!) and not all tutters wear half moon glasses. If I had used the term hoiking their bosoms I guess that would be ageist because women's bosoms have a tendency to sag in older age, or pearl clutching because it is mostly older women who wear pearls (actually that isn't true)

I guess we can all see phrases in different ways.

"bosom hoikers" always makes me think of the Les Dawson character (thus proving I am old!) who was always gossiping with her chum, while "pearl clutchers" makes me think of a "refained" type of person, as I associate the wearing of pearls with Sloane Ranger types, rather than with age.

As for the wearing of said specs - I used them with contact lenses, then moved onto varifocals and finally had laser eye surgery and know just buy the pound job specs for reading. I confess that I do have a pair with a chain on them, mainly because my increasing age makes me slightly absent minded and I hate having to wander around the house looking for them.

I have bossoms & half moon glasses I have to look over, I don't care who calls me old. None of those comments were remotely offensive to me (sigh). No offence on those points should be taken in my name.

All the parent hating threads aren't in the spirit of what MN is supposed to be about. That's what does offend me.

I agree that everyone gets annoyed by parents letting their children run amok without intervening but the comment just said that "children behave how they're allowed to behave" which implied that all bad behaviour ever is the parent's fault.

I think it's also not clear what constitutes bad behaviour. For me running around bashing into people is not appropriate, but a little bit of noise and excitement in a busy place like a zoo is fine.

I always book on to the family carriage on the eurostar and last time had a couple angrily craning round to stare at me and making passive aggressive comments ("god I can't take this for 2 hours we need to complain/move seats") because my son was talking constantly. Yes it's boring to have to listen to a 2 year old point out every passing windmill but it's a public place so suck it up.

Being in public involves a compromise between trying to limit your negative impact on those around you but also being prepared to tolerate other people and their noise/movements/smell etc.

The fact that you are denying the obvious ageism is very telling!! How ids this telling? The poster who wrote that has said it wasn't in reference to age so I think it's more telling about what you are looking for in posts. I think calling children 'little shits' is offensive and ageist, I'd also consider 'middle aged shits' or 'old farts' equally offensive but I bet if anyone was calling adults that the post would (rightly) get deleted. I was commenting on the double standards.

Yanbu.
I mentioned on a thread a while back that those people who actually like their children and respect that they are people with rights are continually bombarded with accusations of pfb,precious snowflake,and entitlement.

My dc's are not second class citizens merely because they are young and adults can hold power over them,and they will not automatically give up their rights and needs in favour of an adults.

And if anyone doesn't like that -tough.

The lionness has spoken.

I assume nobody pegs the irony that someone is moaning that another poster is ageist (for talking about glasses FFS! ) on a thread where people are bitching about children, then?

twooddsocks I honestly didn't mean all childrens behaviour was down to parents bad parenting i just meant that turning a blind eye allows children to behave how they want and children like banging about touching things exploring etc but there has to be a limit children are not special snowflakes that the whole world has to revolve round.

Don't worry I asked for my post to be deleted, I didn't mean my post to be about a particular age of person - but hate to offend people.

your not slack op, its just we are not a tolerant society in the UK, we are so up tight and ridgid.

Its a huge leap to say that people who are discussing parents who don't always parent as bitching about children

children running off, being naughty is all part of life its what they do in public so we then say - no!

hazeyjane some posters took you literally busom hoiking is mentioned all the time on here you were not being agiest tutting isnt age specific

OK I am 46 and therefore permanently grumpy because my specs are always AWOL - have you seen the size of the print on food packets in supermarkets? I also have 2 teenagers and a 3 year old so may be ipso facto a feckless parent also! Be as ageist as you like but if you are the wee old lady who reversed her trolley into my DD when she was standing quietly beside me and then glared at me like it was my fault be thankful I am so laid back and am dealing with the menopause with humour. I love the prohibition on early morning selling of alcohol as I can now take the kids to M&S nice and early and do the shopping in peace. All the Sainsbury grandpas get sent to buy the essentials and get out of their DW's feet in the afternoon. They are a tolerant bunch and DD3 is on friendly terms with quite a few of them now. Teenage DDs and I agree supermarkets are not the place for them. So if even I can avoid the supermarket madness surely everyone just needs to put on their Big Girl Pants and devise their strategy! All I want is a bit of tolerance for and from everyone

Drastic, No, we're not 'uptight and rigid'. Who is 'we' anyway? Society is made up of individuals.

I like children, I like my own and I like other people's, I don't even have to know them. When I see parents not parenting, not caring about the impact of what their child(ren) has on others then I don't think much of the parent and I wouldn't be smiling at the child, it's having enough indulgence from the parent.

Children that behave like children within the confines of not hurting/inconveniencing/annoying other people are a joy.

I think it's a combination of posters who don't have children and are perhaps stl young and carrying undealt-with animosity towards their mothers and people whose only power is to judge other pArents.

Not great on a forum called mumsnet.

However, the great thing about them being on here is that you can just turn ghe off.

howabout

teenagers, toddler and menopause...dear god woman have a drink on me

hazyjane there was nothing offensive in your post at all and you've clarified that there wasn't even unintentional ageism, you can't account for other people reading things in which aren't there and getting offended.

Children very rarely put people in hospital or kill. How many women a week are killed by male partners? Children and their far less troubling behaviour - and the mothers (and it is usually mothers being judged) who are supposed to control kids - generate a disproportionate number of threads.

My theory is that there is real animosity felt towards mothers -along with rage about unfulfillable desire - mothers sense this, even fear being a target of this rage. The defence mechanism is to judge other mothers, thus saying: "there are bad mothers and good others. I am a good mother. Hate her, she's bad. Hurt her, if you must , not me."

I prefer solidarity.

Hello Hazy. Hope you're well. I totally get what you're saying.

AND I reckon a load of it is made up bollocks by people who hate women, hate children, hate mothers and KNOW they are can find a lot of people to upset on a forum called 'mums net'.

It is a veritable dog whistle for the deranged.

Bless them. A weird wY go get your jollies, but I guess it all adds to biodiversity.

I think that is a complete over reaction to what people are saying parents need to be responsible for their children this isnt women hating women this is parents talking aboutother parents turning a blind eye to behaviour. I once had a kid come over to us i was happy chatting to them then said child started to jump all over the bench we were sitting on poking at dd with a twig she was asleep in her buggy then they started rummaging in a bag because they were hungry . All while his mother was reading her book i had to say loudly wheres your mummy i think you should go get her soladrity works only when other parents are willing to take part not opt out.

Everything that thecat said.

She is spot on.

I do think that there is quite a sneering attitude toward children, the sort of 'little Horatio expressing himself' comments which position as the child 'not knowing his place,' while the posters children are disciplined and completely understand their 'place.'

I grew up in the 70s and we were out all day, groups of us on bikes, playing footie in the streets, hide and seek, knock down ginger etc

DP grew up in a tenement filled with children, a friend recalls playing in the bin shelters using broken glass for 'jewels' it would be noisy all day, children banging doors, in and out, screaming and screeching.

Children do not get much opportunity to test boundaries these days it seems. They have to be quiet.

A good way to achieve quiet and safety is to plug them into some electronic device. But even that is a bad thing apparently.