To think that mumsnet is quite hostile about children and parents at the moment?

[Ubik1]

Perhaps it's the Easter holidays.

But bloody hell. Thread after thread of people tutting and hoiking bosoms over kids running about and screaming and behaving like...children.

I think most parents are doing their best and actually do a pretty good job.

Thevlocker thing really annoyed you op eh it really isnt ok to ignore your kids while they thump about a set of lockers banging doors and being a nuisance while the mums ignored them its not having a go at parents and kids for nothing the replies on that thread were mixed some for the mums some against tis life really if you think its fine to let kids get on with it then thats what you do

Surely you should hold your shopping basket at chest height (or better yet on your head) so no child will be hurt as they hurtle around ?

It isn't about having complete control at all times or the children being perfect at all times - but is being about being a parent at all times. If they do something inappropriate I pull my kids up on it. I consider running around the supermarket at any age something I wouldn't tolerate. When they were younger I used distraction & inclusion - eg letting them hold the shopping list and tell me what to get from the shelves or asking them to put things in the trolley. If they were in such a state that that didn't work I would leave the supermarket. If that meant we were eating jam on bread for a week so be it.

They aren't angels - but they do know that there are consequences. Some people would consider it the bribery and corruption method of parenting. They know what is expected in any given situation, consideration for other people being first and foremost, and that has not changed. When they were younger it took more effort and forethought, but I am fairly confident now that they know how to behave with appropriate courtesy and consideration in any given situation that they find themselves in and if in doubt err on the side of caution.

If a child bumped me in the supermarket I would appologise - just as if it was an adult. I would still be fuming that a child was being allowed to run around.

I've seen threads where children/babies have been referred to as 'little shits', 'little bastards' and even 'damn things', I think if similar phrases were being used to describe people at the other end of the lifespan MN HQ would deem them ageist and unacceptable. Children are a vulnerable group in society (which other human beings are legally allowed to be slapped?) and IMO this kind of dehumanising language is not ok.

It isn't about having complete control at all times or the children being perfect at all times - but is being about being a parent at all times

And that is it in a nutshell. well said.

Peachy - there is actually an example of ageism on this very thread, with a comment about people peering over their "half-moon glasses" - which tend to be worn by older people. That is judgy and ageist.

Of course children are vulnerable - that is why parents need to parent them, as per Unescorted's excellent post above.

No language like that is not okay and fortunately no one on this thread had used it

I don't think so at all op. Mostly I see children being jolly and racing around with lots of energy and having fun. Just occasionally I see children being rude or ott or behaving in a way that's inconsiderate to others.

Of course it's not a henious crime, they don't actually realise they're doing anything wrong so it's up to their parents to guide them. Children need to learn which behaviour is appropriate in which setting and we have to teach them. It really isn't necessary for them scream and race about in confined spaces. My class understand that. They race around and scream in the playground but not the classroom.

Ubik1 were you one of the mums at the zoo the other day by any chance?

I think it can be hard for children to behave appropriately all the time in public and I think most people accept that to some degree. What really annoys the general public is when the parents clearly can't be arsed dealing with it and then attempt to blame others when the inevitable happens and the child runs into a shopping basket.

Small children only behave how they are allowed to behave ime

KatieKaye I think the half moon glasses reference relates to prissiness like the phrase 'peal clutching' I think that's a pretty tenuous and subjective link to make to ageism. Why highlight that and not pass comment on children being referred to as 'little shits' on this thread?

I think part of the problem is that there seems to be an idea that either all parents are doing their best and all children are just being children or all parents are dreadful and all children little shits.

There are some bad parents out there. I know that no one likes to say that but there are. There are some parents who don't give a shit that their child running about or on a scooter in a restaurant or cafe is not appropriate.
Carrying a pregnancy to term does not give you magical powers of parenting.
If you were inconsiderate as a person before you had children then the chances are you will be an inconsiderate parent who won't understand that running around a supermarket or chasing animals is not acceptable behaviour.

Small children only behave how they are allowed to behave ime

That's rubbish. Small children have very little impulse control, some are naturally more placid than others. Obviously good parenting makes a huge difference but even with that all children will misbehave at some point and some more than others because of their temperament.

Pipbin I wish they came with a user manual.

When I learnt to drive I was told not to pull out on a road if it would affect anyone you are pulling out in front of, causing them to brake heavily.
And that's how I approach noise and high jinks, I will stop DCs doing anything if it will negatively impact on someone else in a public space. They need to learn to be conscientious.
It is the parents rather than kids who annoy me, when they don't care how anyone else is being affected as long as their kids are happy/leaving them in peace.

Im well aware kids have poor impulse control but if a 4yr olds parent isnt that bothered that their kid runs around a supermarket every time they go in a supermarket they are going to think its ok and end up bumping into somebody

TwoOddSocks, children misbehaving doesn't bother me in the slightest if I see parents trying to deal with it. It's the ones who don't that tend to annoy people.

Since I never notice all this awful behaviour I presume my offspring are the irritating brats and I end up avoiding public places with them still more often.

It's not kid hating, btw, it's Parent Hating. That's what the threads are about. I'm surprised the word Breeder hasn't cropped up yet.

Yeah that ^^

Oh my ^^ was for Iffinishedthebiscuit

KatieKaye I think the half moon glasses reference relates to prissiness like the phrase 'peal clutching' I think that's a pretty tenuous and subjective link to make to ageism. Why highlight that and not pass comment on children being referred to as 'little shits' on this thread?

I disagree totally, Peaches. The wearing of half-moon glasses is most definitely an age-related issue, due to age-related changes in eyesight.

I highlighted the ageist reference earlier on the thread specifically in relation to your post, which was about the use of "little shits" and you claimed that if there were similar phrases used that were ageist then these would be deemed unreasonable. I was simply pointing out that you had failed to notice that ageism was indeed alive and well on this thread.

The fact that you are denying the obvious ageism is very telling!!

there is actually an example of ageism on this very thread, with a comment about people peering over their "half-moon glasses" - which tend to be worn by older people. That is judgy and ageist.

I made that comment. I wear half moon reading glasses - I am 45 - most of my friends (of a similar age) wear the same glasses!

This is the kind of thing I was thinking of

exactly.

And being over 45 (which I am too) undeniably puts us into an older age-bracket. Note I am using the comparative here.

Judging people solely by their age is, by definition, ageist.

Pipbin is right. I think most people are considerate and parent accordingly. It might not always go to plan as children aren't machines but most people I think try to be mindful of others. Some people however expect everyone else to be as enchanted by their children as they are and expect others to put up with their behaviour however antisocial it is.

...by the way I was in no way thinking of a particular age of person, we are pretty much tutted at by most ages!

If I offended you, it was unintentional, and I apologise.

I nearly said, 'hoiking their bosoms' but a) didn't want to be sexist and b) realised that many of the tutters are male!