To ban DD from speaking to "racist child" who uses the N word.

[MaryNotPoppins]

DD (6) came home a few months back saying another child in the class keeps on getting into trouble (thank god) because they keep on saying the N word. They also say The P word for Asians (forgive me for abbreviating them but they make me sick to even type).

I thought perhaps it was a one off after she first made me aware but other moms have also shared stories lately of how horrified they have been after having this child over for playdates regarding their racist language. There wont be any ethnic children present for example and this child will still say "you are an N word" if they are playing if she doesn't get what she want's etc.

I have considered that perhaps it's just ignorance since she has called other white children this name however it has been widely confirmed by teachers and parents (not in a petty hearsay way) that 99% of the time this language is directed towards the ethnic children.

I try to judge for myself but I've never had her over and have never ever seen her parents, she gets dropped off by a child minder who drops off about 7 kids in her class as they all live locally.

Now -

The parents of these poor children at the end of racist abuse have told me some of the things this child has said and it's horrid. Disgusting. She tells black kids to swim back to Africa and eat only bananas for lunch and wont stop telling this poor Indian girl she stinks.

The fact that it's been going on for so long after multiple warnings from the school means it's obviously something embedded in this child from home.

I hate the notion of judging kids absolutely hate it....but this one sounds like a bad egg! I know no child is born racist or perhaps genuinely racist and that it comes from home but where so we draw the line?

My DD speaks to everyone and even if someone has previously been in trouble always gives everyone a chance....but I wan't her to keep her distance from this kid. Its a class of 20 and everyone is friends there arent friendship groups....I don't want her around this vile language or behavior.

I'm not an unrealistic smothering mother I know they have to grow up but 6 is too young to be listening to this rubbish. I hate the cringey idea of telling my DD to stay away from another persons DC it seems so high handed but I don't want her around it. I've told her to always stand up for someone who is being picked on (they are 6 so obviously "That's not nice" will suffice ) and always to tell the teacher....

AIBU to say stay away from this kid but if they ever want to be nice again then fair enough? I don't like the idea of this type of conversation with DD it's very heavy but what else can i do?

Yes, I would, KatieKaye. I'd still see it as a serious behavioural problem and my reaction would be exactly the same.

Ds is disabled and has been called names. I wouldn't expect a child of that age to be excluded because of it.

What would that reaction be?
Mine would be that the behaviour beds to be tackled effectively, which does not spear to be happening here.
IMO that kind of language, whoever it is targeted at needs to be addressed immediately. P says it has not changed over several months

That kind of language isn't common.The op hs mentioned disruptive behaviour too. An environment producing that kind of language and a disruptive child is highly likely to be a poor environment.You can't assume it's a nice little nurturing environment either.

Either way the child needs help the same as any child of any race would need and does indeed get support when engaging in bullying or abusive behaviour.You don't pick and choose which kids get support,which don't and which procedures you'll follow.

Well I think it's pretty safe to assume that if a 6 year old is persistently using extreme racist language then her home life is not going to be a bed of roses!

No all kicking I meant exactly what I said. Non-whites are constantly given the message by wider society that they don't count. It's not a secret to us we're more than aware that in society white people count and non whites don't.

My reaction as above, KatieKaye. To not expect severe behavioural issues to be 'solved' in a day or a week, or the child removed from one environment with the behaviour unaddressed. Schools don't have to inform parents of their every move when it concerns individual children. Many parents find this hard to understand. Perhaps they'd feel differently if their child was the one who had behavioural issues.

I don't see that happening here, Awadebumbo. The targets of the abuse aren't being told it's right. Just because the girl wasn't kicked out the first time she said it doesn't mean it's not being taken seriously.

KatieKaye the teacher and headteacher's use of 'a special case' is code for seriously concerning background. It usually means that various agencies, including social services are involved and that the child is known to be either at risk of harm, or has been harmed, either physically, emotionally or socially, as this particular child clearly has been.

'a special case' means a LOT will be happening behind the scenes that other parents cannot and will not be told. It doesn't mean that nothing is being done.

What is happening it's all kick is most posters have concentrated on the needs of the child abusing not those on the receiving end of the abuse. To me as a black person it speaks volumes on how the issue of racism is treated as more people seemed concerned with the home life of the white child and what she must be going through than the effect her behaviour is having on the children she is abusing. Do you really think the child that is being told to go back to Africa and the child that is being told she stinks care about this child's home life?
I read lots of talk about this girl only being six years old and just a child and so we have to cautious about how we deal with it. The children she is abusing are also six years old and there is little to no mention by most posters if how damaging her behaviour is to them but how the OP should consider how badly she must have it at home to treat other children like that.
In this case the posts that speak about the white child out number those that say anything about the effect her behaviour is having on the children she is abusing. It seems to me as a black person that this little white child's problem are more important than the feelings of the child she is abusing. Do these children not count don't they deserve protection.

"In this case the posts that speak about the white child out number those that say anything about the effect her behaviour is having on the children she is abusing. It seems to me as a black person that this little white child's problem are more important than the feelings of the child"

I suppose what I'm thinking is that it goes without saying that the children who have been need support and protection. And if this was a secondary school, or even upper primary I would be in the immediate exclusion camp. But for a 6 year old to behave like this is so extraordinary, and the message from the school suggests that something pretty out of the way is going on behind the scenes it seems to me that she is a victim too. Has it been suggested that she is kept away from the other children at break and lunch while she is still refusing to stop saying these things?

I think you're underestimating the capacity for understanding that young children have, Awadebumbo. That's not to excuse the behaviour or to pretend it doesn't matter. Of course it matters and those children should be given support from the school as well as the support they no doubt receive from the adults around them at home.
I do stand by the opinion that to see behaviour like that must raise the question of what on earth has that child been exposed to out of school? It must be pretty horrific for them to keep doing it for the negative attention it brings and for the usual strategies schools employ around racist/disablist etc words not to have worked. Those words are disgusting but the background to a 6 year old knowing they are and still choosing to use them to hurt and distress others requires more than a kneejerk exclusion.

And I think your underestimating the capacity racism has to deeply effect those who are subject to it and how it can be internalised and fester. I'm not saying these children may not able to understand that she has a bad homelife but that when the are being abused by her they won't care they will just want it to stop.

It's the dismissing of the feelings of the other children that are being abused and the way in which some posters are trying anyway they can to paint the OP in a bad light that is getting to me on this thread.

What do you think should be happening, Awadebumbo?

The OP is free to have whoever she wishes in her house. What she is not free to do is dictate to the school how they handle the behaviour or assume nothing is being done just because the school isn't joining the little huddle of muttering parents in the playground saying God, yeah, awful child! How about you all tell your kids to ignore them in school and we'll get them out of here asap

Where is the child going to go? What do you think should be done beyond removing her from that environment? (not just to Awadebumbo, btw).

Another school? That just makes it their problem.
A PRU? Short term solution.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the OP telling her daughter when interacting with this child to warn him/her that if they use continue to racist language they (OP's daughter) will not, for example, continue playing with them. And then follow through. After all, if one child walloped another over the head, would people expect all the other children to carry on playing with them as if nothing had happened? This gives the child a clear opportunity and perhaps an incentive to behave better.

This isn't precisely what the OP was advocating, but it's not a million miles away from it either. The child's language needs to be dealt with, regardless of the home circumstances. If the school has a reason to believe there are problems at home, then they should refer to the appropriate authorities. Their primary responsibility is to deal with what is going on under their noses. And this attitude of 'poor child' helps no-one, and that includes the 'poor child'. They need to get the message that using such language will not win them friends, and since most people like to be liked it is potentially a potent approach.

It is not clear if the language is occurring in the classroom and that if it is that it is challenged each and every time by the teacher . That is what id be looking for, along with other help for the child. Help for the child plus ensuring the other children see it is not accepted

Update -

Sorry guys it took me ages to read through the thread since i left last night....interesting and some really sad comments here

Hopefully I can answer all of your questions

1. Yesterday The HM was in and I asked her what was being done about this ongoing problem because despite their efforts (alleged or genuine) all children deserve protection and nurturing and not just one! She then said they have been taking the correct steps to permanently exclude since feb but again....."It's a sensitive case that she nor the teachers can just go around discussing in the playground like it's gossip" I said fair enough lets arrange a meeting outside of the playground because no, DD hasnt been called a name directly but she is offended and confused by these comments as a proud mixed raced girl who may not look it (people just think shes spanish etc) with a very very diverse family. Furthermore even if this other kid doesn't say it directly to her DD feels as though it is being said to her because she knows her heritage!

2. I was joking with the Illuminati comment....All i was trying to say as i was in my OP is that i hate hate hate the idea of being a gossiping mum in the playground judging or labeling another kid as DD can be a cheeky little so and so handful ....but racism is not on par with not wanting to share your frozen doll!

3. The school can't really speak with us openly about this case for whatever reason, but yes, there have been reports, letters, newsletters, assembly, and circle time all done.

4. This has been going on since september - this kid is new

5. She is always with a childminder I have no idea why and the childminder drops this kid off other kids too but we arent going to harangue little kids on what they've seen and if they have met the parents etc are we? One kid says she lives in a "big house" thats it

6. I understand that children will be children and perhaps DD and I do not need to have a chat....it's a class of 20 odd I'm sure they may even sometimes go days without even so much as sitting next to one another etc ..... but I just don't feel like I should leave it unchecked or set firm groundrules pertaining to how to cope and deal with bullying in the context of racism (we always talk about bullying)

7. We have not had a deep conversation about racism, where it comes from, what certain terms mean etc because she is too young

8. My main concern is to let her know she can walk away and distance herself from a negative person....even if they aren't being negative to her....but they are being negative to her without knowing it because she has fair skin and a mixed heritage

9. The school seems to be very stressed and dealing with it super carefully - moreso than any other incident.

10. My DD and other DCs have confirmed (as well as staff) and have told their parents that the teacher and TA does always tell this kid off!!! This is actually how i found out about this kid back in september....DD came home and said the teacher cannot teach sometimes because she is telling off this other kid. The teacher also confirmed to myself via email that the child has been put in isolation on a few occasions but they cannot do this indefinitely. She also told me via email and in person that it's a sensitive case.

I've already given my opinion on what I think should happen earlier.
I too think that the when it occurs it needs to be dealt with straight away and in a manner that leaves no one in any doubt to both the child abusing and those being abused that racist language is wrong and will not be tolerated.

that poor child she is just parrotting what she has heard and is not a 'racist' or a 'bully'.

Who doesn't?

Hi there OP

I think YABU to ban your child from speaking to the girl because it won't work on a practical level for all the reasons people on this thread who work in schools have pointed out.

But as I read it, this has been going on for a long time and you are only considering this because you are at a loss. I think you have been misunderstood.

My kids are also mixed race but don't look it. So you have made me think.

I think you have a right as a woman of colour to make a formal objection to your own child being so exposed to hate-speak. That is where your jurisdiction begins and ends but you do have the option of OFSTED. That sounds extreme but it isn't really. It might actually help the school - I'd just do it.

In terms of the little girl, it may be doing her no favours to speculate on her home life. That's a distraction.There is, as you say, lots of general talk about the child herself being a victim but this doesn't take things forward.

It's possible the child says these things to get attention but kids who want attention will usually switch topics quite rapidly depending on the audience. More likely (given the consistency of her behaviour) she has a genuine learned disgust at the sight of brown skin and at the slight differences in appearance and skin-smell that exist between different racial groups.

If the child feels what she says she feels, then someone needs to talk to her about that in a more explicit yet age-appropriate way over an extended period. I think that has to be done privately because generic talk in class can't touch on the disgust/fear feelings lest other children are introduced to such notions at too young an age.

So why is that not happening? Well, maybe it is, I don't know. Well, I guess everyone is struggling to handle racism in our society. Telling someone not to say certain words is not going to deal with the underlying fear/disgust issue.

It seems to me that on this thread many of us are focussing on the child as victim yet ignoring the child's testimony that she doesn't like brown people because we don't to believe that is true. But it probably is.

That comment was to Awadebumbo.

You seem to be inserting yourself into this situation without any real need.

The school are dealing with it. You have been told as much as you have the right to know.

As you say, make sure your DD knows she can challenge and walk away. Not sure why you won't discuss the racism aspect of it with her if you know it's affecting her directly.

In regards to this being a poor child etc I'm starting to feel a bit.....unsettled.... again reading through the thread at how racism is being glossed over completely.

It does unfortunately seem as though little ethnic kids do not matter - and that the welfare of their precious white peers, even if they are horrid naughty little bullies does matter. I do not say this lightly but reading the thread there is a big reluctance by some posters not all to bring how filthy and vile racism is into the equation pertaining to how i should work through this with DD. It's all about the other DC. This is okay and it's what AIBU is all about and even the people who are more concerned about the "racist child" have given amazing advice I'm not taking that away from anyone and thank you....but I do feel a bit hurt as a woman of color reading the what seems to be complete indifference to the victims.

I just want to make clear that this is a forum....and people can't say everything on their mind as they have a life outside of MN....I'm not suggesting that because you haven't mentioned it that you automatically do not care...but at the same time you do mention what you feel is most important....and for some posters it obviously isn't these victims.

Just an honest thought I'm not having a go at anyone please dont post back bashing and trolling! I appreciate the advice from everyone even the people judging me and saying I think DD is perfect because I was aware thats how this could come across.