To think more outrage is needed over Tory threat to child benefit?

[flower68]

According to papers today Tory planned welfare cuts can't be achieved without further cuts to child benefit. George Osborne has refused to rule it out apparently. Such a cut would be massively controversial, hurt lower income families and is potentially politically toxic for the Tories. So why is no-one pushing them for a straight answer?

Just Google it

so you have no evidence?

I have googled. What I see is alarming. There is no mention amongst the first few articles I have skimmed of a change being for future children only.

Greedy bankers God it is great place to start to blame them. There had to be a political will to allow them work their magic sadly that lies around 1999 with the tweaking of a few rules around credit here and in the US. Know your political history and for most on here it will be unplattable. The bankers are the fall guys I'm afraid!!

No-one has a crystal ball. People cant expect constant Government benefits because they chose to have children. If you have children you work to support them and don't rely on benefits. This country has become a joke handing out child benefit for having a child and tax credits for below a certain wage. These benefits are now expected by many. It's simple, of you can't afford kids then don't have them! I've been a single parent and never claimed CB or tax credits. I survived! I managed and didn't need nor rely on state benefits to keep me or my children.

I get where some of you are coming from I used to be a rabid Tory myself then my DH nearly died on the day my DD was born and our 60k income went down the drain. If I leave this thread without achieving anything else just remember this could happen to you too! I hope it doesn't

I agree with the quote upthread

"You have not earned that money and it's being giving on the backs of hard working people many low paid you should not base your family on what you earn the free money given by the government

And I suggest anyone who is planning a child and cannot afford to do without the £17 a week means in my view you can't afford to have a child:

I have googled it.

I've found nothing at all to support what you say. Do you have a link or any proof at all?!

Loletta, means testing it means those that can afford their children have their taxes paying for those that don't. Fairer to scrap it if it's not being paid to all.

Then everyone is free to make whatever choices they wish and all have to take personal responsibility for those choices. Children will see the benefits of a decent education and hopefully their futures will be better than the culture we have now where many heavily rely on the state for their life choices.

How about I have an exsisting child can afford a second and conceive twins? Then what happens should the third child not get Child benefit? And who does this apply to the mother or the father or to both? Is it ok for men to go and have two kids with 2 different women but them claim child benefit but only for a woman to have two? Or is it based on both parents?

I think some people are missing the point here and seeing everyone who thinks it should be capped/ cut off at two kids as benefit bashing.

Its not. I absolutely love the benefits system. I'm so so proud that theoretically in this country we have a safety net for people whos circumstances change for the worse, and for people who were dealt a bad hand in life and born into poverty or into a feckless family or whatever!

But I think we're all missing the point here that in a world where thousands are starving, resources are limitied, oil is running out, the planets being destroyed, is it REALLY such a big deal for the gov to be taking the stance that actually, two children is quite enough for a family??

Maybe it will make some people think before having numberous children. Maybe it won't, and I'd hope any sensible gov would have proper support in place for people who do have children who they can't affort to support.

I just hate the way the tories go about it making it about cuts and benefits bashing. The whole thing needs a bloody overhaul and not in the form of universal credit! Employers who don't pay a proper living wage need to foot more of the benefits bill, housing benefit shouldn't exsist to line landlords pockets with profit and it must be made a crime of child neglect to have children and refuse to support them properly. Fix that, and then start to rebuild the benefits system.

I've been a single parent and never claimed CB or tax credits. I survived! I managed and didn't need nor rely on state benefits to keep me or my children

then you must earn very well to be in that position. Plenty of people don't. How do you propose someone earning an average £25k salary (about £1.6k a month after tax and NI), pays childcare bills of £1k a month to work full time? do you understand that very well educated, decent people don't necessarily earn higher than average salaries?

do you understand that if only higher earners have children, those same children will have an expectation of being higher earners themselves...so who will do the lower paid work? the essential stuff like cleaning? working in shops? caring for the elderly and people with disabilities?

bigkids because gdp (the way the mainstream parties measure economic 'success') is a measure of the movement of money.

Ie money ping ponging out to workers and back in via tax boosts gdp, whereas the more efficient method of paying people less and taxing them less reduces gdp.

It's such a flawed system.

Mrs Flannel here it is. Its a couple of years old so took me a while to find it.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/dont-be-fooled-iain-duncan-smiths-attack-on-pensioners-is--really-an-attack-on-all-of-us-8591518.html

I've been a single parent and never claimed CB or tax credits. I survived! I managed and didn't need nor rely on state benefits to keep me or my children

Bully for you! I would dearly love to know your salary, your childcare bills and your mortgage/rent costs at the time!!

Fed up - again you miss the point.

The people who should be supporting YOUR children are YOU and THEIR FATHER.

Not me and MY childrens'.

Get angry that he is being allowed to shirk his reponsibilities, don't expect people who can't afford three kids themselves to have to support his cuntishness.

are starving, resources are limitied, oil is running out, the planets being destroyed, is it REALLY such a big deal for the gov to be taking the stance that actually, two children is quite enough for a family??

But that's not their real stance. It is just stage two of whittling the whole thing away. Get rid of the higher earners, most people quite happy, get rid of the above average earners, quite a few chunters but it's only a small sub section of society, then in increments you get rid of socio economic groups until poof the whole lot is gone.

And Emmaswan, yes it is the DH OF fed up who should be doing the supporting of the children, but the LAW should be supporting fed up, and if the law can't, the benefit system will have to.

we collect CB and both make a hair under the threshold. if I earned nothing and DP earned 1000 more, we wouldn't qualify. Doesn't make sense.

i find it odd that couples with our income even qualify. I think CB or something like it have a place, but the threshold needs to be lower. people with our incomes shouldn't qualify.

And there you have the problem with the tories eggity.

Some of what they say actually makes sense, its just their motives and the brutal harshness in which they carry it out which makes them deplorable.

I don't think a mother and kids should be cramped in a one room homeless shelter for a year because their is no housing while single people rattle around in 3 bed houses because all their children grow up. I don't think any one can argue with that ideology. Its just the tories who can turn that into something as nasty/ evil as the bedroom tax which ruined peoples lifes overnight.

I find this CB proposal to be much the same thing. I understand the principle, but I don't think the tories do. Well they do, but not for the same reasons.

If this comes in, as well as sticking carers allowance in with UC I will then have apt he choice of either, DP quitting his job and trying to get a minimum wage position somewhere so we qualify for UC or I will have to hand over my eldest son to social services because I will not be able to afford to house/feed/clothe the other 3 whilst caring for him.

DP earns just too much for us to qualify for UC and these magical jobs with employers that don't mind me disappearing all over the country for weeks at a time for DS's treatments don't seem to exist after all!

We could afford to lose something but not everything which is what I'm afraid of if all these cuts come into play.

then you must earn very well to be in that position. Plenty of people don't. How do you propose someone earning an average £25k salary (about £1.6k a month after tax and NI), pays childcare bills of £1k a month to work full time? do you understand that very well educated, decent people don't necessarily earn higher than average salaries?

You assume far too much. I was a student at the time earning £5.60 an hour in Pizza Hut as a waitress. My days off were spent with my children and I used my savings to pay for childcare. Stop being so bloody bitter at your own situation. I understand VERY well thank you.

do you understand that if only higher earners have children, those same children will have an expectation of being higher earners themselves...so who will do the lower paid work? the essential stuff like cleaning? working in shops? caring for the elderly and people with disabilities?

Everyone should work and pay for the children they have whatever job they choose without relying on benefits. You are attempting to be condescending as you are clearly angry at anyone who disagrees with you.