To wonder if benefit fraud is rife

[sam71xxx]

Was at my mums house on Thursday. Post came and 2 bills for my brother were in it. He has lived with his girlfriend for 3 years since moving out of mums. His girlfriend was a single parent to 3 children, living in a HA house. She does not work. Brother works full time earning £38k a year.

I asked why my brothers post was still coming to mums and she said that he is still officially living at her house so they can afford to save for a house deposit! Girlfriend claims as a single parent.

I was gobsmaked! I told mum it was very wrong that low paid people like me and my husband paid taxes and didnt claim a penny in tax credits while others played the system and that I can only dream of saving for a house deposit on a £30k a year combined income! She then got very upset and asked me not to report them (which I won't)

This is the third person in 6 months I have heard of doing this kind of thing (claiming as single). I am beginning to think it is probably more normal than I thing and I am the mug for not claiming as a single parent (I would be much better off!)

This thread is strange. Of course benefit fraud is wrong and just because others are avoiding and evading tax it doesn't make benefit fraud any less wrong.

I am mad about benefit fraud, I'm mad about tax avoidance and I'm mad about tax evasion. Surely it doesn't have to be exclusive?

Those of you who know please report. I did.

Please only do so if you KNOW. Not suspect. I've been reported before and my kids ARE disabled. That's not nice.

I agree that if the OP absolutely knows for certain that her brother and his girlfriend are committing benefit fraud she and her mother are responsible for colluding in it.
However I still doubt that it's "rife" - surely most people don't want to risk a criminal record?

Well said Nerr - and yes, it's rife (fraud of the benefit kind, and fraud of the tax evasion kind, that is. Neither are justifiable)

I have no idea how the government could reasonably know how much benefit fraud is going on.

I would guess it's based on extrapolating known cases of benefit fraud, but how?

The thing is the world isn't fair
There is no justice. We need to accept that and see that things even out over a lifetime.

For every arse like your brother cheating the system there is a disabled person entitled to but quaking that they will lose their benefits

It is an imperfect system but I think that figures show that fraud is low overall it will never be zero

No, SirChenjin it is not. Fraud amounts to around 0.7% of expenditure for benefits (around £1.2bn in 2013/14), 0.9% relates to claimant error, and 0.4% relates to official error. The total of fraud and error combined is around 2.1% or £3.4bn. Offset this total with benefits underpaid of around 0.9% and you will see that it is not "rife". But don't let DWP's own figures stand in the way of sensationalising the issue.

I also know people who aren't allowed to claim tax credits as their ex partners have remained living in the marital home

People who have had TC stopped for lengthy periods as their carer now lives in the property ft

Isn't fraud supposed to be less than unclaimed benefits?

Cats flap

Very wise

bamboostalks: How is not our business? We are all supporting those on benefits which is fine if it's legit. You have to earn over £10,000 before you pay any tax.

Income tax is only one kind of tax...

...and to assume that random person A on benefits has not contributed to (or perhaps even fully paid, depending on the circumstances) the amount they are currently receiving from the system is short-sighted.

by no definition of the word is it 'rife'

be great if people didnt collude though (thats you now op)

It's fraud and a criminal act.

Apart from that it does great damage to those who honestly claim benefits, costs us all not only the additional cost in fraudulent claims, but the need to employ people to investigate and hassle genuine claimants to root out the criminals.

No it is not rife, the Daily Mail and others like to claim it is so all claimants are depicted as scroungers and cheats.

No doubt you now despise and don't respect your brother.

Tax evasion and avoidance is however a worse evil in our society.

Or you could look at these figures (I'm in Scotland)...www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-benefit-fraud/

I would never report, no matter how convinced I was that someone was committing fraud. There's always that tiny chance I could be wrong and then I'd have ruined someone's life. The worse thing about reporting people is the way benefits are stopped automatically just because of an anonymous tip off. You could fall out with a neighbour and she, regardless of how blameless you are could have your world come crashing down because of one phone call. I bet the apparent fraudulent MPS don't get their wages stopped while they are under investigation.

It is rife, yes. It always has been. I think the most common ways are a) people with partners pretending they're single parents and b) people signing on doing cash in hand jobs on the side. I've known loads of people do it, my own ex husband did it for a while, anyone who thinks it doesn't happen is in denial or naive.
I'm sure tax evasion is much more of a problem of course, because there's a ceiling on the amount of benefits that can be claimed.

in ops case, as mother has admitted it, i would be telling them it stops or else i would be reporting it
if you are not sure then you shouldnt be gossiping about it on websites or in rl
if you are sure, you should report it or, at least, tell them it better stop now

More actual figures rather than just pub-drunk anecdata:

from Channel 4

It's so depressing that people are so stupid that they fall for the hatred of people on benefits which has been whipped up so that the government can get away with dismantling the welfare state.

Benefits were introduced so that you didn't have to beg for food and shelter if you lost your job or became ill.

Food-banks are the evidence that the welfare state is being dismantled. It was set up so that we didn't need food banks. Their existence should be ringing loud alarm bells, people should be standing up for the rights of unemployed and sick people to have benefits instead of having to beg.

Instead they're mithering over the 1% who claim fraudulently. And while they worry about them, the benefit system is being destroyed. In 30 years time you won't have to worry about defrauding of the benefit system because there won't be that safety net, I expect the same sort of people who worry so much about such a tiny problem, will be demanding to know whether the people in the soup kitchen queue have actually hidden a couple of tins of baked beans in their cupboards at home, so don't really have the right to be there.

Pathetic. Some people really do get the government they deserve.

I do question how often this happens. DH and I were about to move back to the UK. Calling around i quickly calculated that I couldn't afford to work. I spoke to friends who had DC and continued to work. All but one had done this during the preschool years. I know it's a small sample but it does make me wonder just how many people are doing it during the early years. Some of the excuses were but overall it was done because if they didn't do it the lower income earner would have to stop working and future income later on would be impacted.

It isn't right and I strongly disagree with living that way. We made the decision to stay out of the UK because of the tax system. It's a shame the system is set up the way it is because a lot of families earning £30-80k with two or more DC are really struggling in the preschool years.

Forgot to mention hiding windfalls (such as inheritances) in other peoples bank accounts. I can think of 3 people who have done that ,off the top of my head.

I think you should report him OP. He is the one in the wrong, not you. You can do it anonymously and it would serve him right. As you said, why should you and your husband be law abiding and pay your taxes when he is just getting away with defrauding the system.

Nah, I don't think it is rife.

I know a person who occasionally works on the side but as far as I am aware the rest work full time and get tax credits, are carers/ disabled or trying to get a job.

It's just a shame that so many have such negative opinions of those on benefits. I have heard them all myself about myself without people knowing the full situation. They just assumed I 'bred for benefits' not remembering that I became a carer after they were born to a working father and I have been studying so now I can look for a job as I don't need to be a full time carer any longer. But hey, some still think I'm scum!

I know a Woman with two children, living with them and their Father. She pretends to be a single Mother living at her Mothers house but she and they live at her Auntie's flat they pay the rent with her partners salary. She is on income support, housing benefit, council tax, child tax credits and works cash in hand. This is 100% true as I know her and has only told me and her other friend.

The problem with the site you link to SirChenjin is that it makes gross assumptions about claimants and their behaviours. So what if there are only a small number of DLA claimants medically assessed? Lots of evidence is sought and used in DLA decision making, not just what the claimant tells the DWP. It's an even bigger jump that simply because more claimants fail the WCA under ESA than the old PCA for incapacity benefit that their claim is fraudulent or otherwise incorrect. The Government has shifted the goalposts on ESA three times already!

IME it's not as common as tax dodging
i know of more people cooking the books of their businesses (putting the non working spouse down as an employee/shareholder to use their tax free allowance seems very common) than fiddling benefits.