To wonder if benefit fraud is rife

[sam71xxx]

Was at my mums house on Thursday. Post came and 2 bills for my brother were in it. He has lived with his girlfriend for 3 years since moving out of mums. His girlfriend was a single parent to 3 children, living in a HA house. She does not work. Brother works full time earning £38k a year.

I asked why my brothers post was still coming to mums and she said that he is still officially living at her house so they can afford to save for a house deposit! Girlfriend claims as a single parent.

I was gobsmaked! I told mum it was very wrong that low paid people like me and my husband paid taxes and didnt claim a penny in tax credits while others played the system and that I can only dream of saving for a house deposit on a £30k a year combined income! She then got very upset and asked me not to report them (which I won't)

This is the third person in 6 months I have heard of doing this kind of thing (claiming as single). I am beginning to think it is probably more normal than I thing and I am the mug for not claiming as a single parent (I would be much better off!)

Mary - with regard to everyday things I agree.

However, I have two children and will soon have a third. If I moved in with somebody in the future (which isn't going to happen, incidentally, I'm talking in hypotheticals here, you understand! ) why would I have to be responsible for his two children as well as my own because of my salary?

What I'm trying to get at is that the people responsible for the children are the parents. I'm certainly not saying, and I never would say, that a step parent shouldn't contribute to the household but if my soon to be ex husband moved in with another woman with children, he could be contributing to five or six children when he's only fathered three. Do you see what I mean?

In general though, I agree with you - I'm not trying to be disingenuous. I won't be even thinking about establishing a partnership until my children are older for this reason.

I am not a new poster. I name changed as not to be recognised by DBs GF who does post/lurk I think. My DB is a well paid professional, thats why I was shocked. Also my DB treats those children as his own. The youngest was only 6 months when they met and calls my DB Daddy. They are also trying for a baby of their own, so thats why I find it all the more shocking as they really are a proper family unit, not just mums boyfriend living with them.

It was actually a 2 week holiday to Florida they had last year, so that poster who mentioned Florida made me laugh as it must be a benefit fraudsters top location!

A bit unnecessary Dawndonn

read about sweetheart deals with multinationals and try to get as worked up about that

look, just report them if it is fraud. if he's got a professional job then he's a dick, although its actually her committing fraud i suppose so he's just a cunning dick. if you dont report it you are colluding so stop moaning about it on online forums

The point is benefit fraud is illegal and not acceptable. And certainly not by greedy people on £38K a year. I don't understand this. New man moves in but shouldn't be responsible for DC's because he didn't father them. But other tax payers are and they didn't father them either.

I said the FATHER should be responsible for them, not other tax payers :)

I can't believe some of the posts on here. Benefit fraud is excused by tax avoidance/evasion (the two are mixed up) - seriously, in what world is that ok?

Alternatively, "thou shalt not discuss benefit fraud because tax avoidance happens".

Really? Makes me think those who are advocating that are likely to have good reasons.

Of course benefit fraud happens. Its hard to find out about - I recently read of one case in the paper involving some very wealthy people I knew. I was shocked - thought to be honest, part of me had wondered how they afforded what they did on what their salaries were likely to be. Then you just assume its either surprisingly well paid jobs or inherited wealth.

The father should be responsible for them but if he earns £1500 his contribution isn't going to cover what the mother needs. The father needs to live as well. Even if he gave the mother half of his salary she would still need some money from another source. A man who chooses to live with a woman who already has children should have to contribute to that household. If he doesn't want to contribute, he shouldn't be in a serious relationship with somebody who has children.

ever heard of 'divide and rule'?

I do actually believe it's more widespread than genuine claimants believe. I know of at least five families who've had expensive foreign holidays this year and really question where the money has come from

in all seriousness, what the fuck has it got to do with you?

I am a single parent - and I work full time (not that I should have to clarify that, but there you go) - and I live a good life. I live a good life because my parents are supportive financially and make sure both myself and the children have what we need - including holidays. So I feel quite sure there are people out there questioning how I can afford it and to them I stick two fingers in the air and tell you to mind your own business.

Please understand - benefit and tax credit recipients are tax payers too. You don't own us. You have no right whatsoever to question our lifestyles or how we can afford things. Go question my as to why he thinks it acceptable his children's maternal grandparents are supporting his children when he doesn't.

I absolutely agree he should contribute to the household and apologise as my posts were misleading in that respect. However, I don't feel this lets the children's father off the hook either. I suppose I am thinking of cases I know where this has happened and it's because the mother is stuck between a rock and a hard place - childs father won't stump up enough, she's not entitled to benefits because of new partners earnings but his contributions are low because of pre existing responsibilities or because of other reasons so fraud happens. Not justifying it by the way.

My friend was absolutely terrified and distraught when she was found out because she had no-one to care for his children if she went to prison. But of course she didn't, she just had to pay it back plus a fine.

No court is going to send a single parent to prison for the sort of routine false claim that we are talking about here. So for many people it is worth the risk because the worst that will happen is they pay it back over how ever many months it takes them to do that.

I wish the same old bores would bore off with talking about tax avoidance as if to say benefit fraud isn't a problem. Different issues different threads.

It probably is quite common, I've known a few do this. I've also had problems getting people to do overtime, increase their hours or generally better themselves as with the bonkers tax credits they would be no better off.

Fwiw I wouldn't blame some people commiting benefits fraud, someone single on JSA with an owned property gets fuck all. I would think its reasonable they do a bit of cash in hand work just to live.

*her children

Government fraud figures

It is common. Two people that I know we're prosecuted a couple of years ago, one with a very similar story to your brother's partner.

There are other that I've known about.

My theory is that it's all about having a conscience: have a conscience = unable to get away with anything; have no conscience = get away with murder and probably get some compensation for the trauma it caused you

How is not our business? We are all supporting those on benefits which is fine if it's legit. You have to earn over £10,000 before you pay any tax. You can stick 2 fingers in the air, I probably would too if I was claiming benefits and being supported by the state whilst getting treated in holidays etc by parents. You seem not to see any problem with claiming benefits for rent and food etc whilst getting all the trimmings from parents. Well what the next government will say is that actually if you have family who can afford to treat you why on earth shouldn't they pick up the tab for day to day living?

Realistically speaking an absent father unless on mega money isn't going to be able to support himself in a separate household and fully financially support another household. Whatever your opinion on benefits the case the OP describes is cut and dried. It's benefit fraud. It isn't playing the system it's fraud. And if the OP's Mum lives alone is she claiming the 25% discount on council tax for being a single occupier. Because if the brother says he's living there then she could be in trouble for that.

Doesn't sit right with my ethics compass to be supported by the state and to have luxurys paid for by parents

Why not ljwales? I am a single parent and have had holidays paid for by my mum. My dc also have a pony, fully paid for by my mum. Am I supposed to turn these opportunities for my dc down because of the way my life turned out? It's not their fault and there's bugger all chance of those things happening if my mum didn't pay for them!

So why aren't you shopping your brother, OP?

Because other people are taxed to give you the basics and they can't afford holidays too Florida or ponies. Anyway you overdid it with ponies, your obviously not genuine.