Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if benefit fraud is rife

202 replies

sam71xxx · 06/04/2015 09:59

Was at my mums house on Thursday. Post came and 2 bills for my brother were in it. He has lived with his girlfriend for 3 years since moving out of mums. His girlfriend was a single parent to 3 children, living in a HA house. She does not work. Brother works full time earning £38k a year.

I asked why my brothers post was still coming to mums and she said that he is still officially living at her house so they can afford to save for a house deposit! Girlfriend claims as a single parent.

I was gobsmaked! I told mum it was very wrong that low paid people like me and my husband paid taxes and didnt claim a penny in tax credits while others played the system and that I can only dream of saving for a house deposit on a £30k a year combined income! She then got very upset and asked me not to report them (which I won't)

This is the third person in 6 months I have heard of doing this kind of thing (claiming as single). I am beginning to think it is probably more normal than I thing and I am the mug for not claiming as a single parent (I would be much better off!)

OP posts:
manicinsomniac · 06/04/2015 10:16

I don't know how common it is. I doubt it's rife.

Surely it's an unattractive and frightening prospect for most - living always looking over your shoulder, just waiting for someone to find you out and report you, then knowing you'd end up vilified and likely in prison - no thanks!

monkeysox · 06/04/2015 10:18

Lighthouse that's a strange relationship with your mum to not even ask about post. Surely you would ask out of concern?

I do actually believe it's more widespread than genuine claimants believe. I know of at least five families who've had expensive foreign holidays this year and really question where the money has come from.

Genuine claimants would need every penny to live on, there would be no spare money for holidays.

AlpacaMyBag · 06/04/2015 10:18

Virginia I haven't got the energy for so much outrage. I save it for worthwhile things!

Whiskwarrior · 06/04/2015 10:18

Threads like this amaze me in how many people seemingly know people claiming fraudulently - and it's always, always the 'single mother' thing isn't it? Further adds to the 'single mothers = downfall of society' crap that the Mail et all firmly believe.

OP, if you honestly believe this is the case about your brother then report him. Although a) I don't for a second believe that anyone is this open about fraud and b) unless his girlfriends children are all under school age she wouldn't be allowed to just not work - the DWP are all over women like her to get a job, any job. I speak as a (genuine) single mum of three myself. The days of just claiming and refusing to work are long gone, regardless of what the rags tell you.

usualsuspect333 · 06/04/2015 10:19

This is a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative party.

shewept · 06/04/2015 10:19

Why can't people be outraged at both?

This, exactly this!

I hate both benefit fraud and tax evasion. Because one is costing the country less, it doesn't make it better.

Icimoi · 06/04/2015 10:19

YABU to claim it must be rife because you know all of three people who do it, allegedly.

Did you know that actually there is massive underclaiming of benefits people are entitled to?

ghostyslovesheep · 06/04/2015 10:20

0.7% of total benefit expenditure

be outraged at both if you wish but one is generally committed by people living in poverty and the other by people who can afford to pay but don't

I reserve my outrage for the greedy rather than the needy

Superexcited · 06/04/2015 10:21

OP: surely if your feel so outraged about it you should tell your brother that you are not happy that he is cheating the system and if he doesn't stop it you will report him (well actually report his girlfriend because she is the one committing the fraud).
Give him the chance to do something about it without reporting him or going about with steam between your ears about the situation.

Whiskwarrior · 06/04/2015 10:22

Hang on, my three kids are entitled to FSM and I work - does this mean we're not allowed a holiday if i save up for it? Are you only allowed a holiday if you're loaded?

Single mothers - know your place!

bamboostalks · 06/04/2015 10:22

Look there are plenty of people who are totally upfront about claiming fraudulently. In your world people are closed mouthed about finances etc that simply isn't the case for loads of people.

Lucyccfc · 06/04/2015 10:23

Maybe it only appears 'rife' to those people who happen to know lots of people who do it - maybe you should choose who you mix with a little more carefully lol.

I only know 1 person who does this, but I can name you plenty of famous people and organisations who commit tax evasion - which costs the country far more.

Littlefluffyclouds81 · 06/04/2015 10:23

I don't know about rife, but I think in part the way the system works is to blame.

I live alone with my two DCs. I get next to nothing from their fathers because of their financial circumstances. If I were to live with a new partner, for example my bf who has a 40k job, I would lose my housing benefit, tax credits and effectively my income would make it impossible for me to raise my dc, unless my bf basically supported me and my dc financially. I'm sure there are men out there who would do that, but I've not found them.

It's not the same as living in a family where the DCs are biologically both of the parents, as personally I don't feel that anyone SHOULD have to take on that financial responsibility for someone else's kids. So single parents often feel like they have two choices:

  1. cheat the system
  2. stay living alone

I am studying and when I graduate and get a decent job I will still be in the same boat, as I'll probably be on about £25k, and if I moved in with a partner I would have to support me and 2 dc out of that. If my new partner wanted to contribute anything towards my dc that would be up to him, but I don't feel I could expect that.

shewept · 06/04/2015 10:23

Didn't. Realise people were so private about post. I arrived ay mums the other day, picked the post up, sorted into hers and dad piles and put it on the table. I would have made a comment if dbros was there. Not much is private in my family thought.

I also had a cousin who did the same as the ops brother. The whole family knew. That's why he stopped. But like I said everyone knows everyone's business in my family.

Superexcited · 06/04/2015 10:25

ghosty I believe that most people committing benefit fraud are greedy rather than needy. Her brother earns a decent salary, his girlfriend has no need to commit benefit fraud other than greed.

0.7% is a teeny figure! but how much is that in monetary terms? When the govt are planning welfare cuts of £12m, some of it quite possibly from carers and disabled people I can't help but be annoyed by any benefit fraud.
I am also annoyed at tax avoiders and other types of fraudsters and the govt.

bamboostalks · 06/04/2015 10:26

You have to earn less than £17,000 to claim Fsm, hard to save for a 2 week holiday to Florida on that!

GunShotResidue · 06/04/2015 10:27

I read an article yesterday 'Top ten ukip arguments (and why they are false)' which said that if everyone claimed all the benefits they are entitled to and there was no benefit fraud, an extra 100 million (from memory) would be paid out each year. So there's more people not claiming what they're entitled to than people fraudulently claiming.

YANBU to be annoyed at people you know are doing it, but I don't think it's that common.

SouthWestmom · 06/04/2015 10:27

Oh there's loads of low level cheating going on. I know of:
Someone who cheated the school admission system
Someone who claims tax credits, works part time but doesn't declare the additional self employed stuff in order to qualify
People.paying cash to avoid vat
People turning down extra hours (permanent) to keep tax credits

Samcro · 06/04/2015 10:28

op must be very bored, I cant see any other reason for this thread

bamboostalks · 06/04/2015 10:29

Totally agree that the system tempts you into it as well.

Marmaladedandelions · 06/04/2015 10:29

I don't see it as the boyfriends responsibility to pay for children he hasn't fathered personally. I think the government need to ensure fathers - not men co-habiting with a woman with children but fathers - pay for their children.

bamboostalks · 06/04/2015 10:31

My neighbour has been asked loads of times to go ft but keeps to 16 hours as she can't be bothered going through rigamarole with tax credits people if hours are dropped. It doesn't pay her any more to work more. That's not fraud just a crap system.

Jellytummys123 · 06/04/2015 10:33

I work for a fraud department, it does happen allot - and most of the cases I've seen are people who are just plain greedy. (Not all)

One of the people I spoke to even got married to her 6 figer earning partner and tried to hide it.

Littlefluffyclouds81 · 06/04/2015 10:35

Marmalade - that would be great in an ideal world but it's not always possible.

Dd1's dad gives me £120 a month. He is self employed and doesn't earn much. If we went through csa I would get a lot less than that. He is not likely to ever earn more as he has no qualifications and is now in his fifties.

Dd2's dad has severe mental health problems and I get £5 a week from his benefits. That will never go up, as he will never be deemed fit for work.

Theoretician · 06/04/2015 10:36

The law is an ass for giving a couple more benefits if they live apart than together.

I do think the benefits system creates an incentive for single-adult households to exist. I would like to see the system fundamentally changed so that instead of benefits being calculated on a per-household basis, they are (like income tax) calculated on an individual (and dependent children) basis. In such a system you would get exactly the same amount of money if you lived on your own or shared a house with ten other adults, and regardless of whether the other adults were on benefits or were millionaires.

Swipe left for the next trending thread