to refuse to let bil live with us.

[horriblesil]

I've name changed for this. Please be kind. Not too judgemental.

I have 3 children, not very little, but not teenagers either. I don't work much (I'm a dinner lady at school). Dh has a 'high powered' job in the City so I do all the caring.

My dh has a brother (age 45) who is severely mentally handicapped. He has lived at home with his parents caring for him. However, my fil died 2 months ago and now mil has had a heart attack and is unlikely to survive for much longer. She is in hospital.

In laws live the other side of the country and bil has never been here to visit us, we always go to them. Dh has asked if bil can come and live with us for a while ,whilst he sorts out care for him back on the other side of the country. This care would be state provided, not paid for by us.

The reality is that I will be expected to look after him. He will be under my feet all day as he knows nobody. My sons will need to share bedrooms so he can have his room.

But most importantly, I know that by living with us (albeit temporary) he will not be homeless and the council will not be under any pressure to provide him. We have been warned by other council areas that this is what happens as there are so few care areas.

The temporary basis could easily be 6 months, quite possible a hell of a lot more.

I have said no and dh has gone off his rocker. He said he will never turn his back on his brother and can't see him on the street.

Before we married we were living together for 5 years and I made it very clear that I would never ever have his brother living with us. This was 'a conversation' we had before we married.

My view is that if we don't do anything the council HAVE to get him some kind of care and his situation will be sorted far sooner. Also, he will get care in the area that he knows and will be able to continue going to his social groups that he has been to for years.

worridmum Quit with the guilt-tripping histrionics. The OP (and her dh) are in a terrible position and your post is really not helpful or constructive in any way, other than to paint yourself as the queen of compassion. Unless you've ever been in exactly the OP's position, you're not qualified to judge.

And, if you'd rtft properly, you'd have seen that the dh's mother is not dead, although ill in hospital, and that they live in a council house and on benefits, so there's unlikely to be any inheritance.

This is what 'big society' means - it means woman doing free care to keep society going.

OP - your calling SW then driving off idea is probably the one that will work. Your DH's dad has recently died. His mother is dying. All the family he has left is his brother, and of course he's not thinking straight.

I'd amend the idea - he drives off and goes to the hospital, you will get childcare for your DCs for that day, and sit down the street from your PIL's house (someone the SW hasn't seen/don't recognise). If the SW drives off leaving DBIL alone, you'll go ring the bell and sit with him until DH can get back. BIL won't really be left with noone, it'll just you forcing social services hand. This doesn't have to be done this week.

But most of all, you are all probably in a state of shock, including you - your FIL has died, your MIL is dying and something has to be done about BIL. It doesn't have to be done by you, and not this week. The driving off and leaving him with SW could be done this week, or it could be done after MIL has died and the funeral has been and gone. Officially, BIL is still cared for by MIL who's in hospital. Your DH isn't officially taking over by bringing BIL to your house for a week if your MIL is still alive and still officially his carer.

Mumoftwo i agree with what you say! I just know if it was me id be so torn and vulnerable because of my parents passing , being poorly and the stress of trying to accommodate everyone at home.
I have some small experience of trying to find the right care for a family member and its beyond hard!
Its a super shit situation.

Still i do think op is doing the right thing so the correct care can be provided.
Its just a sad terrible testament to the terrible the times and because of shitty cuts, and removal of services people are wrongly pit in these situations.

YANBU.

worriedmum, how ignorant are you? Do you have any idea of the situation the OP is on about? Anyone who has been may disagree with her, but my goodness they would understand. You have no idea how physically and mentally draining it is. It's not a case of 'oh just do it, stop being mean'. Looking after people with severe disabilities, especially when you are not prepared to, can break you. And if the OP breaks, what then? Are you going to fly in and look after this poor man worried. Very easy to sit behind a screen and judge. When you are pushed to the brink, by a situation you're dragged into because it's 'morally right',.you have no help, no end in sight, then you can come here and judge. I have a feeling you might be a bit more sympathetic if you did.

OP, would it be possible for your husband to instruct a solicitor who specialises in community care to assist him in finding a placement for his brother?

I think this would be useful, as your brother would be helping without having to be there and, more importantly, the solicitor would explain to him why it is a really fucking dreadful idea to have his brother come and stay with you in a different LA area and without any care package agreed.

You are not being heartless. Your husband is being incredibly naive, and if he got his way he would ruin your brother-in-law's chances of getting an appropriate placement in his home area.

Op, when I first read your thread title i was ready to think what a horror..

but you are doing the right thing.

dhhas put filmon so I will put on more comments later but leaving bil at the house and calling ss is the only way to'play he game'

'worridmum' you have got no idea how caring for someone can crush families. no idea.

Those people calling the OP cold hearted, etc can just grow the fuck up.

My parents cared for my maternal grandfather for years and it nearly killed them. Their health suffered massively. And as by this time My DBro and I were adults, they didn't have the added stress of looking after children. DBro and I did what we could. But DBro lives overseas, and I had children and a full time job, so it was hard going.

Grandad needed physical care, such as help getting up after falling out of bed. My parents health meant they couldn't lift him up between them so they had to call an ambulance.

In the end, the only way they could get the council to take action to move Grandad somewhere more appropriate was to officially make him homeless by saying he couldn't come back into the house after his stay in hospital. It was a social worker who told my parents to do this, off the record.

While he was in my parents home, the council would have done NOTHING to help, even though my parents clearly struggled. After all, Grandad had a roof over his head.

Ultimately, it all led to Grandad getting a care home place where he was better cared for than my parents could manage.

So, the OP is NOT being selfish here. Her BIL will get much better care if OP stands her ground. If the OP has BIL in her home, he will be there pretty much permanently, and that won't do any of them any good.

*your husband would be helping his brother

It isn't okay and your PIL have really screwed you all over by not preparing for this eventually. He could have been housed near you already with a care package in place so you were provided the added extras that are needed (and yes they are) and so on.

I would never ever do this to my dc. I am likely to end up being a carer to someone with disability but it's my choice and something to be worked towards slowly and carefully and not to the detriment of my dc childhood. Yes I help now and yes so do they but full time carer in your own home for a full sized adult male with severe disabilities - completely different ball game. Caring for several years for someone at the end of their life, again different ball game.

zzzzz

You need to RTFT. Op said before they married - 20 years ago - that she would not be caring for the BIL. Her dh agreed. They have discussed this and agreed it many times over the years.

Presumably you would not have married the Op in the first place? But her dh did. He agreed.

Out of interest have you ever cared for a toddler who happens to be 6 foot tall, weigh 12 stone and be very violent? (Notmsaying that the OP's BIL is violent but that is my family's experience of caring for adults.)

There is no inheritance. They had nothing. A car on mobility. 2 months ago we paid for my fil funeral at several thousand pounds. It is likely we will need to pay for mil funeral soon too. Of course I don't care about paying for funerals. There is no money to pay for any car for my bil.

It is about my long term future mental health and happiness. It is about my childrens' happiness.

Quite frankly if my husband continues to punish me after I say no to looking after his brother, when he has known for coming up 20 years I would never do it, the marriage will be over at my end. I feel no guilt for saying no. Nothing at all.

I feel worry about the state of my marriage if my dh punishes me for months afterwards. I feel worry for my children.

Spotify, I'd disagree with you. I worked in a GP practice until a few years ago and when working on patient records to type letters etc I would occasionally see past correspondence about children who had been placed in institutions at birth due to disability. I'd stress these were from the past - the most recent I ever saw was from 1978. I think people with disabilities living at home was normal until the late 19th century but of course far fewer survived then. As more survived and as a more 'scientific' view of humanity was written about in the late 19th/early 20th century, institutional care came to be seen as the obvious right option. I had a great great uncle who was born with Down's syndrome, he was placed in an institution before WWI and lived there until the 50s. Now in fact people with severe disabilities are much more likely to live at home, and far more are surviving far longer. We are in a new situation now and saying that we were more compassionate 30 years ago or whatever is simply not true IMO. The OP is NOT asking her husband to abandon his brother, she is refusing to live in the same house as him and her three children. There is such a thing as being hard-headed, and it is NOT the same thing as being hard-hearted.

It is a horrid situation for everybody.

I imagine OP's husband feels totally ripped in two. Making decisions before marriage is a lot different from being in the midst of a stressful and emotional situation - OP's H is dealing with the death of his father, the imminent death of his mother AND worry about his brother.

FWIW I don't think OP should be caring for the BIL BUT I also don't think her husband should be on the receiving end of judgment for the way he is feeling, especially if he is getting pressure from the "professionals"

I can totally understand the OP's feelings of desperation and I think some people are being deliberately outraged rather than understanding the emotion behind her comments.

OP I totally understand why you're saying what you are about leaving the SW to it, I get that you feel you need to present them with a crisis to get them to act, but I think a sane conversation with them is the only way forward if you're to protect your BIL's best interests. For that to happen, your DH needs to be on the same page as you re: the U feasibility of him moving in with your family, so he can clearly express to SS that it is not in anyone's best interests for that to happen. It's not in BILs best interests to move area or to be in a situation with someone who is unwilling and I'll equipped to meet his needs (with all best intentions).

Your BIL needs to be central to his care plan, his wants and needs need to be taken into account, as do yours. What does he want to happen? Does he have the capacity to contribute to the assessment process? Has there been SS involvement previously, does he have a named SW or existing care plan, was there ever any respite arranged?

I have had SS suggest that a member of my family who is blind, non-verbal, incontinent and has the understanding of a 2 year old is ok to be housed alone, in the hope that we would step in. According to some on the this thread the particularly ignorant I'm clearly an awful person to have refused.

You have to play hard ball with them, its not nice but that is the fact of the matter.

I've seen women brought to their knees, their physical and mental health destroyed, by caring for relatives with disabilities and that's without factoring in the three children. Those of you saying the OP is being cold hearted would soon change your tune if you did it yourselves for more than a month. It's not "people absolving themselves of responsibility", it's desperate women trying to save themselves from appalling circumstances.

This was my situation although it was my brother who has sn. Our parents died within a year of each other and my dm went too quickly to sort out arrangements for my db. The only immediate solution was for him to come to us. We had a 2 bed house and a one year old dd.

Thank God my dh supported me. I won't pretend it was plain sailing because it wasn't. He was with us for 18 months until social services got their act together.

I'm not sure I could have ever felt the same about my dh if he had refused to let my db stay with us. Thankfully he didn't, he is one in a million.

OP - please, you sound like you are panicking - this isn't something that will be decided with no return option tonight. Honestly, there's time to sort this. I can see why you are panicking, but you also need to realise your DH will not be thinking straight now, his dad has died and his mum is dying. This is not "playing the game" mindframe.

Is there anyone who can look after the DCs? Could you go stay at PIL house for a few days looking after BIL now, so he doesn't have to move in now and your DH doesn't need to act this week, this week he's waiting for his mum to die?

Reported, worrid.

'Quite frankly if my husband continues to punish me after I say no to looking after his brother, when he has known for coming up 20 years I would never do it, the marriage will be over at my end. I feel no guilt for saying no. Nothing at all.

I feel worry about the state of my marriage if my dh punishes me for months afterwards. I feel worry for my children.'

Do not feel guilt. You made it very clear to him. Dealbreaker.

"but if my husband asked me to desert my sibling I would never ever forgive him and the marriage would be over."

If my husband tried to force me into being the full-time carer for an severely mentally-handicapped adult against my will I would never forgive him and the marriage would be over.

OP, I really feel for both you and you husband tbh, it really does seem like you're caught in between a rock and a hard place at the moment. Your husband does sound like he's panicking and no wonder. But nevertheless, you are totally not being unreasonable to hold your ground. And what many people on this thread don't seem to realise, is that you absolutely will need to 'manufacture' a crisis in order to get your BIL the assistance he needs. As soon as your BIL moves out of his borough, it will be game over as far as the council is concerned. Your husband needs to understand that this will be the best thing in the long term for his brother.

worried I think your response is too much and as much as I can see how upset this has made you.

op you are in a horrible horrible situation. I think not having BIL come to stay is the right thing for you as a family- big picture. But the journey you will have to make to get there is going to be so hard.
Would couples counselling help?

Tell me - why is it okay for social services to work this way? Because there is no money. I worked for SS in an Adults with LDs team 10 years ago and we had to choose where resources were going. If we didn't have reason to believe that life was in danger, and someone was adequately housed, there was no way they would get re-housed by us. BTW the individual SWs aren't in charge of this. We had to go and beg for the money and frequently be either refused, or told to halve the amounts.

Carers had to be on their knees, begging, leaving their adult children in our office for things to change. Not because we didn't care - I personally think carers run this world and without them we couldn't function.

And bear in mind that carers get to the point where they are depressed, ill health, dying because of the care they provide and still do it. If the OP wants to have her physical and mental health ruined, her marriage go the same way and have less time and energy for her own children, including one with disabilities, by all means have a go at her for refusing to be a carer to someone she actually doesn't know that well, didn't marry, didn't being into the world.

Never underestimate the work and care that carers provide. By behaving as if you would do it, it's no big deal, you are negating the job that carers do.