to refuse to let bil live with us.

[horriblesil]

I've name changed for this. Please be kind. Not too judgemental.

I have 3 children, not very little, but not teenagers either. I don't work much (I'm a dinner lady at school). Dh has a 'high powered' job in the City so I do all the caring.

My dh has a brother (age 45) who is severely mentally handicapped. He has lived at home with his parents caring for him. However, my fil died 2 months ago and now mil has had a heart attack and is unlikely to survive for much longer. She is in hospital.

In laws live the other side of the country and bil has never been here to visit us, we always go to them. Dh has asked if bil can come and live with us for a while ,whilst he sorts out care for him back on the other side of the country. This care would be state provided, not paid for by us.

The reality is that I will be expected to look after him. He will be under my feet all day as he knows nobody. My sons will need to share bedrooms so he can have his room.

But most importantly, I know that by living with us (albeit temporary) he will not be homeless and the council will not be under any pressure to provide him. We have been warned by other council areas that this is what happens as there are so few care areas.

The temporary basis could easily be 6 months, quite possible a hell of a lot more.

I have said no and dh has gone off his rocker. He said he will never turn his back on his brother and can't see him on the street.

Before we married we were living together for 5 years and I made it very clear that I would never ever have his brother living with us. This was 'a conversation' we had before we married.

My view is that if we don't do anything the council HAVE to get him some kind of care and his situation will be sorted far sooner. Also, he will get care in the area that he knows and will be able to continue going to his social groups that he has been to for years.

His options would be to apply for Discretionary HB, taking in two lodgers, two overnight carers or moving. Otherwise, very shortly, his housing benefit will fall by 25% if your MIL doesn't get out of hospital and move back in.

OP I just wanted to say you're doing brilliantly. Lots of good advice here. Keep it up

OP, what a situation. But I don't think you are being unreasonable. At all.

Did you see the 'homeshare' thing upthread? That sounds as if it might offer some possibility for your BIL situation.

Remember that you are in your marriage by your own agreement and consent. Your DH depends on your agreement and consent for your marriage and family life to continue.

So what do you think the OP's dh should have done 'years ago' coffeeebean ? Forced his db into a care home before it was ncessary for him to go? Insisted his parents write down their intended death dates and planned accordingly? You can't reserve a place in the care facility of your choice for some unspecified date in the future. And if the reality is that your lo is likely to end up somewhere unsuitable miles from home, why would you rush to move them?

Sounds like the situation is shitty enough without the OP being livid with her dh. If she had wanted to marry someone who didn't give a damn about his family I'm sure she could have - world's full of them.

bedroomtax

Here is more information about it. They may not have been paying it if your FIL and MIL were age 62+.

But now, he will need to if she doesn't move back in and he is on his own.

Even with an overnight carer, he will have a reduction as he will be under-occupying by one bedroom.

It's not feasible for him to stay in that house no matter what he wants.

As someone who was in the exact same position as the dh I think your post Coffee is really pretty unkind. I'm sure both my parents didn't plan in dying in their early 60's with very little notice (10 days in my dads case and 3 weeks in my mums) How remiss of me not to badger them about future living arrangements for my brother. I'm very glad that my dh wasn't livid at me for my utter stupidity.

I think that's harsh BarbarianMum, OP's DH should have had some frank conversations with his parents and brother about the future and they should have put plans in place, either a well paced, well managed move into supported housing or helping him get used to and accepting of carers coming into his home. This situation was going to arise at some point but it is now a crisis because they haven't engaged with this inevitable time and this will have made it all the more stressful for everyone involved. OP said she was always clear with her DH that she would not accept her BIL living with them and as for her DH being so concerned about his brother well he won't be the one looking after him, he is trying to force his wife into that role.

PeachyPants is spot on. The PILs (and DH) didn't plan for this situation because they all assumed she would give in. None of them thought about BIL's best interests in the long term, or what the OP (who they were clearly relying on to pick up the slack), or the children, would suffer as a consequence of their short-sightedness. It may he that the DH did try to have the conversation with his parents & they refused to engage. But, that's the point - it was up to them to plan for this eventuality. They were hardly likely to live forever, this was always going to happen, and it was extremely short-sighted of them not to have planned for it. Specifically, by making moves to get BIL into residential care before now.

Good point re bedroom tax. The reality here is that BIL is in a minimal choice, possibly no choice situation. I thought when I read the posts upthread bemoaning the lack of mention of his wishes, that if this was done it would have to be handled carefully. It would potentially be an unkindness to give him the idea that he has options.

And yy re plans. Clearly the family unit could've at least discussed things but equally, what exactly do people think could have been done to make this not a crisis? There's no money, so pre-emptive shopping for homes would be pointless. The parents both appear to have become ill quickly and in close succession. If they'd been gradually declining and on a slow, slippery slope to being unable to manage DB, yes it could've been worth finding out what was available at council rates locally. Because he might have been able to remain at home waiting for a place then. But this is a crisis situation, with his carer becoming incapacitated very quickly, so whatever plans had previously been made were inevitably going to go up in smoke. And there's bugger all the parents or DH can do about the bedroom tax or SS gatekeeping.

Peachy some friends of mine are in a very similar situation to the OP. When her dh's father died unexpectedly they did a managed move of her dh's (severely) disabled brother into a 'reputable' local care facility because his mum is in poor health. He ended up with pressure sores and lost his already limited mobility by being left sitting in a chair all day. So now he's back home again and they are back to square 1. Everything else is full, or won't take him or is awful, or hundreds of miles away.

People don't make plans because, quite often, there are no good choices. That's the reality - as the OP is unfortunately finding.

I haven't read every post, but obviously this thread is very much about supporting you, OP, in this difficult situation. However, with regard to the situation in general, your brother should be at the centre of any decisions made about him, and involved as much as possible. Clearly there are some very big decisions coming up.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, and forgive me if it has, but your BIL should be entitled to an advocate under the Care Act, which has just been brought in.

www.scie.org.uk/care-act-2014/advocacy-services/commissioning-independent-advocacy/duties/independent-advocacy-care-act.asp

Your DH would have to be clear that he cannot be an "appropriate individual" due to the distances, work commitments etc. An advocate would ensure that your BIL's feelings and wishes are taken into consideration, and help him be fully involved in everything that is happening, or about to happen.

Hopefully this would also reassure your DH that his DB is getting all possible support.

BarbarianMum that was not what I meant.

tiggy that requires respite care to be available, or for there to be money for carers. Maybe there was in this case but it still would have been up to the OP's inlaws, not her dh. Maybe they thought they had years left, who knows?

Tiggy, OP has been clear that BIL requires residential care, and that carers attending a few times a day simply won't suffice. With that in mind, it's actually probably more helpful that his behaviour towards carers will make that not an option. I don't suppose that was all part of the parents grand plan, but equally it wouldn't have helped the current situation at all.

Having read some of the posts I crossed with, it's clear that the only way this wasn't going to be a crisis was if BIL had been pre-emptively placed into residential care. A few posters have identified this, and I agree. No amount of 'planning ahead' would've mitigated the sudden illness of a carer, the bedroom tax, SS gatekeeping, and the impossibility of reserving a place in a chosen facility for some unspecified date in the future. But this 'solution' assumes there's actually something suitable in a sufficiently local facility that he could continue attending his activities and seeing his parents. If there isn't, which wouldn't be a great shock, all that happens is that he ends up with what barbarianmum identifies as the not good choice several years sooner.

I think the example of the man who developed pressure sores is an extreme one, there are a lot of good facilities with caring staff. If OP's BIL has a placement arranged years earlier then there would have also been greater scope to work with provider to ensure the package of care met his needs. There is always going to be the potential for a sudden illness of a carer especially when those carers are elderly, trying to introduce BIL to a care home in this time of crisis was always going to be the worst case scenario. OP has made it clear that under the circumstances that exist now carers coming into his home would not meet his needs but who knows whether this would have been the case if this had been introduced gradually, leading to a small group of trusted people who BIL knew and maybe trusted to help him.

Whether a managed move years ago would've been better depends entirely on what was available for him to have a managed move to. And again, familiarity with carers might actually make it harder for him to get the residential placement he needs at this stage. Them coming into the home might be less scary, but equally it might lead to him being more scared by having to stay in the home overnight.

Clearly OP is NBU at all, and as I said, I think the family could at least have discussed this so DH was prepared for what would happen if and when crisis hit. But this is not necessarily a situation that could have been pre-empted. It may be that the best case scenario was for BIL to stay put as long as possible, everyone to familiarise themselves with the SS landscape, and DH to go in ready to play hardball to get him the care he needs once both parents died or became incapacitated (obviously this has not happened).

I agree with the poster who said that nothing was done because they all assumed the OP would give in.

This is not the first time ive read about something like this either. I see it as a feminist issue because 9 times out of 10 its a woman who is expected to do it.

SS and OPs DH are trying to take advantage of this societal expectation.

And as for SS trying to take a woman to court because she couldnt or wouldnt be able to cope with caring for her husband after a stroke......well im not surprised they want to keep what happens in a family court secret. In the digital age of social media the days of keeping this kind of treatment of people secret are numbered.

Oh Op how horrible for everyone here. I hope things get resolved asap.

Dh knows that he has no options really, but he is consumed by guilt. One way of reducing this guilt is for the op to take all the blame - as she is willing to do. Make sure he sees the plans and prices for long term hotel stays or holiday homes. Make enquiries and make sure sees it so that he knows you are 100% serious about moving out. You can do it whilst being sympathetic too. He may hate you at first but it will deflect the guilt into blaming you. I think over time, he will forgive you but I think you need to be prepared for a rough ride until he can get to that place emotionally.

If bil is left alone overnight, ensure that he knows how to call the police when he is scared and encourage him to do so.

I agree HelenaDove I think that is my interpretation of the lack of planning and it's a terribly unfair position to put her in.

'I see it as a feminist issue because 9 times out of 10 its a woman who is expected to do it.'

I agree. Whenever government talk about caring, 'Big Society' and 'family support', it 9 times out of 10 means women.

The DH is still trying this on. And might possibly still.

I'd be looking at holiday cottages and caravans rather than a place for BIL. And making DH aware in no uncertain terms that if he turns up with BIL on Saturday, you will leave immediately with the children as you told him for years and year there is no chance you will be a carer for his brother. He does not have the option to make you one, even for a single day (which he plans for more already, leaving the OP with him whilst he travels for work).

I might even plan to be in a hotel the night he arrives back - and to tell the DH that's what you're doing. That way there is no possibility of the BIL being brought back, as the DH has to do his work trip or potentially lose his job. Harsh, yes. But there has to be a crisis for SS to bother to help BIL.

As MPs aren't around to help at the moment and given the time issues here, it might be worth approaching one of the local councillors who's responsible for the area your bil lives in - they can be useful sometimes in situations like this.

(apologies if this has already been suggested - I've read the thread and its updates over the last few days so I might have missed some of the posts when pages have changed)

Also - if Bil goes to regular day care centres or activities - is it worth approaching them? They might know somebody who could help or point you in the direction of advice or other help. or even just to know where their other participants come from to know what places are available locally and what the pressure is currently like for spaces...