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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to refuse to let bil live with us.

566 replies

horriblesil · 05/04/2015 19:26

I've name changed for this. Please be kind. Not too judgemental.

I have 3 children, not very little, but not teenagers either. I don't work much (I'm a dinner lady at school). Dh has a 'high powered' job in the City so I do all the caring.

My dh has a brother (age 45) who is severely mentally handicapped. He has lived at home with his parents caring for him. However, my fil died 2 months ago and now mil has had a heart attack and is unlikely to survive for much longer. She is in hospital.

In laws live the other side of the country and bil has never been here to visit us, we always go to them. Dh has asked if bil can come and live with us for a while ,whilst he sorts out care for him back on the other side of the country. This care would be state provided, not paid for by us.

The reality is that I will be expected to look after him. He will be under my feet all day as he knows nobody. My sons will need to share bedrooms so he can have his room.

But most importantly, I know that by living with us (albeit temporary) he will not be homeless and the council will not be under any pressure to provide him. We have been warned by other council areas that this is what happens as there are so few care areas.

The temporary basis could easily be 6 months, quite possible a hell of a lot more.

I have said no and dh has gone off his rocker. He said he will never turn his back on his brother and can't see him on the street.

Before we married we were living together for 5 years and I made it very clear that I would never ever have his brother living with us. This was 'a conversation' we had before we married.

My view is that if we don't do anything the council HAVE to get him some kind of care and his situation will be sorted far sooner. Also, he will get care in the area that he knows and will be able to continue going to his social groups that he has been to for years.

OP posts:
tiggytape · 07/04/2015 08:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeachyPants · 07/04/2015 08:46

It might be worth putting all of what you have said down in an e-mail to the social worker you are dealing with. If they just want a quick fix and the problem of organising appropriate care off their hands they may think twice about fudging the issue if you have been explicit in writing about your inability to manage his needs, concerns about his welfare if he is moved away from his network and concerns about possible impact on your own DC (if you think this would be the case I am inferring but you said in an earlier post that he had been violent towards carers). It would be a brave social worker who tried to push through a placement once they had undeniably received information that their may be risks to those involved.

ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 07/04/2015 08:47

Good luck - at least if you speak to them directly you can make it absolutely clear that he can't come to you. Stress that it's not possible due to the needs/high care demands of your own special needs child, and you have to put your duty of care to him first. It's in neither of their best interests, especially since BIL has never visited you, doesn't want to leave in any case, and has form for being violent.

Applecross · 07/04/2015 08:49

Do you think your dh actually wants the end result to be that BIL is in a home close to you after he stays with you a short while? Just strikes me that may be what he perceives as a good outcome - much handier for him to see/check up on him.

Box5883284322679964228 · 07/04/2015 08:51

Just keep it simple and follow up with an email to the sw repeating everything. 'No I will not be caring for BIL. No he cannot stay here for a short holiday. No it's not my responsibility, it's yours'

It really does sound like your DH and SS are used to manipulating. Just stand firm with your 'no', be inflexible. Put yourself and your kids and your family's needs first.

IDontDoIroning · 07/04/2015 08:51

Do you have a health visitor, gp, consultant or senco or someone who could advocate for your disabled child (sorry hope I haven offended anyone) and say to your dbils sw or ss representative one professional to another it isn't in your child's best interest to have a adult with significant needs living in your home and relying for his care on that child's primary carer ie dm ?
Surely the needs of a child and the well being of them, their carers and immediate family (parents and siblings) has to be at least equal if not greater than an adults?
If your dh hears this from someone else in an unemotional fashion would be be more likely to accept it?
stay strong op it's not really in anyone's best interests for him to stay with you.

Box5883284322679964228 · 07/04/2015 09:00

I disagree, you don't need to explain yourself or give reasons. If you give reasons, they will pick holes with your reasons. They might offer mediocre support while he 'temporarily' staying at yours. They might attempt to make you feel guilty. A big flat firm 'no he's not staying in my house, no I'm not looking after him' is enough. Repeat when necessary and don't get involved in justifying yourself.

Also email the SW after. Clarify that you won't be having him. Forward the email to DH. Do not rely on DH to back you.

Box5883284322679964228 · 07/04/2015 09:13

You don't need your child's senco/sw to back you up. Just tell BILs sw, no, you're not having him. Do not discuss why. Keep bringing the discussion back to 'what SS are going to do about the situation' and 'SS fulfilling their duty of care'

Box5883284322679964228 · 07/04/2015 09:22

They cannot force you to have BIL. However be prepared for them to say that finding a placement will be incredibly difficult and possibly even impossible with such little notice. Hold firm with your 'no' because there will be something for BIL once you get past SS tricky tactics.

expatinscotland · 07/04/2015 11:15

Hope you get through to them.

Original poster
horriblesil · 07/04/2015 12:10

Social services said to me that there wasn't a space in a home in the Bath/Keynsham area (not Bristol, sorry I was wrong).

I said, what will you do then?

They asked if my dh could stay longer.

I said, no because he is off to Huston on Monday and needs to come home on Saturday to get everything ready.

I made it very clear that bil will not be coming here, not for even a day until he is properly settled in a home.

Social services asked me why.

I said that I didn't trust them to find a placement for him if he came to the South East.

Social services said that it wasn't the case and they would continue to look for a placement. They said that they had told my husband that and it shouldn't be too long.

I said no. I said I wasn't prepared to have bil stay at all and that dh would be coming home on Saturday evening.

They said they wouldn't have anything by then and bil would be alone in the house. Could anyone come and look in on him, a neighbour etc.

I said no. The neighbours weren't reliable.

They repeated that there is nothing available so quickly and that bil will be on his own.

I said that if they do that, then they will be breaking the law and I would call the police on them. I said that it was their responsibility to do ensure bil is safe and they are now fully aware of the situation so couldn't deny knowledge.

I also said that dh was too upset to deal with social services as it was too emotional and that I was now to be the sole contact. If they wanted to speak to dh they would need to go via me. I said dh would not answer his phone to them.

It was left that they will come back to me when they have found out more about places in homes etc.

BASTARDS!

OP posts:
19lottie82 · 07/04/2015 12:14

sadly, no surprises there OP. keep playing hard ball, it sounds like that's your only option.

Original poster
horriblesil · 07/04/2015 12:14

Oh, also, social services said that it may be that bil stays in the house and has carers call in on him throughout the day. I said that bil was very difficult and would likely not answer the door to a stranger.

social services said that the helpers wouldn't be strangers after a few days as it would be the same people. Also, that bil needs to have someone with him at all times as he gets scared and worried very easily.

I have a feeling that this is what they will be looking into rather than placements.

Actually, she was very convincing that there are literally no places for him in a home so if she is correct, what happens? What if there are no places in a home?

I think this question is what is freaking my dh out!

OP posts:
ButEmilylovedhim · 07/04/2015 12:18

Well done, OP! You were fantastic! I commented earlier on in the thread and have been following since and you're doing so well. Your DH will be so relieved you've taken charge. Bil finding a placement is by far the best for everyone. Flowers for you.

tiggytape · 07/04/2015 12:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Chippednailvarnish · 07/04/2015 12:25

Well done, fingers crossed for you.

Original poster
horriblesil · 07/04/2015 12:27

I have not told dh that social services were very clear (and very believable) that there will be no spaces in a home by Friday. He wouldn't let his brother be alone in the house and I really think he could bring him back to the South East with him rather than have 'carers' call in on him a few times a day.

Bil would be really scared to be alone over night in the house. This is a real problem.

I had thought that by 'playing the game of who blinks first' that social services will 'find' a placement by Friday. However, after my 2 phone calls today, I really don't think there is a space.

So what should I do?

OP posts:
PeachyPants · 07/04/2015 12:27

I'm sorry to hear about your horrible experience with social services, they are putting you in such an unfair position. IMO there will be places in homes albeit they may need to organise (a more costly) out of area placement as a stop gap. If they insist on having carers come in instead then make your concerns clear in writing be prepared to monitor this closely and feedback in writing the consequences of this to social services.

TelephoneIgnoringMachine · 07/04/2015 12:31

They are still trying to back you into a corner, aren't they. They are playing the emotional blackmail card. Just keep repeating, DH cannot care for BIL as he works f/t, & you cannot do it. End of story.

SS tried this with my mum after dad had a massive stroke, she'd endured decades of his ridiculous behaviour, racking up really massive debts against the house (he nearly made us all homeless at least twice & she remortgaged it), alcoholism. He had a stroke, was in hospital for months. She knew she couldn't care for him when he came out. They threatened to take her to court, she got a solicitor & called their bluff. She had to formally separate (ie throw him out) while he was in hospital, for SS to back down. They were not prepared to provide any assistance whatsoever, unless he was demonstrably homeless. She does in fact still provide an enormous amount of support for him as what SS provided was/is laughable, but she wasn't coping before the stroke - she certainly couldn't have managed after.

Box5883284322679964228 · 07/04/2015 12:33

Well done OP.

Now follow with an email clarifying that you will not be having BIL stay and that any communication is to be done via you as DH is unavailable. Also outline that BIL needs to be with someone constantly as he is unsafe on his own and panics, needing ongoing reassurance. Then state he needs to either to be placed in a home or have someone with him 24/7.

This way you will have at least clarified bil's needs and your expectations for his care.

Could he be in danger if left on his own what would happen? What's happened in the past when he's been left alone for a few hours?

tiggytape · 07/04/2015 12:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Heels99 · 07/04/2015 12:37

Why do people assume ss are lying? It could very well be that their are no places in a home. I would imagine such homes are over subscribed rather than under utilised with vacant beds. Ss do not have a magic wand.
I support the op and wouldn't want bil either, but it maybe that people checking in him is the only actual option.

Box5883284322679964228 · 07/04/2015 12:38

Did you explain to SS about the over night thing?

I would move out if DH returned with BIL. Temporarily move to parents if cornered.

SS behaved how I expected today. You will have to run the stand off right up to Friday and beyond if necessary to get the care BIL needs.

championnibbler · 07/04/2015 12:38

SS will have to put something in place.
do not, under any circumstances take BIL into your house, no matter what SS tell you.

TelephoneIgnoringMachine · 07/04/2015 12:40

They will need to find a temp placement for him, it's their responsibility, not ypur. It's never been your responsibility. If there were proper systems in place to pre-empt this sort of thing (why aren't there?) then this problem would have been spotted months, if not years ago, before PILs situation got to where it is now, and a place would have been lined up for him.

You cannot be physically caring for, possibly lifting, a man, a relative stranger who potentially outweighs you. That will do your health no good. You will not be up to the job - you cannot provide the proper care for him. He may outlive you. Your DCs may suffer, financially, emotionally, they will lose space in their house.

What does BIL want - have SS asked him? If not, why not? How does he feel about being in a house with some children he doesn't know that well?

What if your marriage breaks up due to this? Who will care for BIL then? Have SS considered this, did you tell them this is a real possibility? Do they know you have a child with additional needs? And that your kids will have to move rooms if BIL comes to live with you, which will disadvantage everyone. What's their plan for mitigating those problems?