to refuse to let bil live with us.

[horriblesil]

I've name changed for this. Please be kind. Not too judgemental.

I have 3 children, not very little, but not teenagers either. I don't work much (I'm a dinner lady at school). Dh has a 'high powered' job in the City so I do all the caring.

My dh has a brother (age 45) who is severely mentally handicapped. He has lived at home with his parents caring for him. However, my fil died 2 months ago and now mil has had a heart attack and is unlikely to survive for much longer. She is in hospital.

In laws live the other side of the country and bil has never been here to visit us, we always go to them. Dh has asked if bil can come and live with us for a while ,whilst he sorts out care for him back on the other side of the country. This care would be state provided, not paid for by us.

The reality is that I will be expected to look after him. He will be under my feet all day as he knows nobody. My sons will need to share bedrooms so he can have his room.

But most importantly, I know that by living with us (albeit temporary) he will not be homeless and the council will not be under any pressure to provide him. We have been warned by other council areas that this is what happens as there are so few care areas.

The temporary basis could easily be 6 months, quite possible a hell of a lot more.

I have said no and dh has gone off his rocker. He said he will never turn his back on his brother and can't see him on the street.

Before we married we were living together for 5 years and I made it very clear that I would never ever have his brother living with us. This was 'a conversation' we had before we married.

My view is that if we don't do anything the council HAVE to get him some kind of care and his situation will be sorted far sooner. Also, he will get care in the area that he knows and will be able to continue going to his social groups that he has been to for years.

I think OP has already been clear that there isn't really anyone else who can help out and IME these kinds of arrangements are extremely fragile and can often place people in difficult situations. She's also said that having carers go in to his home is not viable as he would not let them in and has been violent in these circumstances previously.

YANBU but....... your DH must be so torn. DH and I have always said we could never cope with elderly, infirm parents living with us and would never ask the other to do that. However, when my mum, who was as sharp as a pin mentally, became unable to cope - heart condition and old age- I was beside myself. The consultant told me she would live another 6- 12 months at most and I was ready to take an extended LOA from work and move her in with us.
I couldn't quite believe I was ready to do it- it was nothing I thought I would ever do. DH would not have said no to me but I know he would have been desperately unhappy - much as he liked my mum. Fortunately, our house was totally unsuitable and the company I got in to put in place a stair lift told us it was not possible. The consultant, bless him, wrote to social services and told them my mum should get NHS Continuing Care and she had care 4 times a day, a nurse daily in her own house with DH or I going every other day to see her as well.
If DH had said No to me I would have found it really hard to get past it ever, even though we would not have coped and it would have been completely the wrong move for my mum. I was overwhelmed by the need to look after her, do the best I could to make sure she was cared for and I felt it was up to me. My head told me one thing but my heart told me something totally different.
Really tough place OP and you hae all my sympathy- you and DH.

To be fair though expatinscotland if you hadn't had experience of the social care system you'd have a reasonable expectation that you could trust what statutory agencies told you and take it in good faith.

I think, too, it's different when you are caring someone who is terminally ill versus someone who may well outlive you. There's no end in sight to the latter.

Just wanted to add about care homes: One of my brothers went to great efforts to find a nice one with a nice room in a nice location and carefully chose and arranged our mum's possessions. She lasted less than a month there. Was wrong for various reasons which he hadn't anticipated before she went to live there. Everyone agreed it was the wrong place for her (family and professionals). Number two was very different, but also wrong for a different set of reasons. (Again we were all in agreement that it didn't fit.) In the end she ended up in an assessment unit for six months and a mix of professionals decided where would be best for her as a team. She's lived there for the last few years.
Would not get too hung up about finding the best place first time round. Would expect to be able to tweak it.

expat The husband may very well have told social care that he was willing to care temporarily as evidenced by the original post in the first place! So, wind your neck in before you make assumptions.

Sadly, our three experiences were awful. The ILs will probably be our next experience . . . .

'So, wind your neck in before you make assumptions.'

Why should I? It's hardly just an assumption, excepting you, every other poster on here who's had to deal with this situation found it a nightmare or worse.

That's saying much.

You are the one taking this all personally and like peoples' comments are an assault on yourself. The thread's about the OP, not about you.

I think sadly with service being as stretched as they are many people's experiences will be awful there are many stories on this thread which attest to the woeful support carers get.

The advice you received above about Power of Attorney is out of date. The law regarded this has changed since the introduction of the Mental Capacity Act, see below or here

"7.1 Sometimes one person will want to give another person authority
to make a decision on their behalf. A power of attorney is a legal document that allows them to do so. Under a power of attorney, the chosen person (the attorney or donee) can make decisions that are as valid as one made by the person (the donor).
7.2 Before the Enduring Powers of Attorney Act 1985, every power of attorney automatically became invalid as soon as the donor lacked the capacity to make their own decision. But that Act introduced the Enduring Power of Attorney (EPA). An EPA allows an attorney to make decisions about property and financial affairs even if the donor lacks capacity to manage their own affairs.
7.3 The Mental Capacity Act replaces the EPA with the Lasting Power
of Attorney (LPA). It also increases the range of different types of decisions that people can authorise others to make on their behalf. As well as property and affairs (including financial matters), LPAs can also cover personal welfare (including healthcare and consent to medical treatment) for people who lack capacity to make such decisions
for themselves"

Any social worker or health care professional will know this.

'I think sadly with service being as stretched as they are many people's experiences will be awful sad there are many stories on this thread which attest to the woeful support carers get.'

This. I have close friends who have been pushed to the limit, suicide attempts, due to the lack of services and support for carers. It's dire. And will get worse with a growing ageing population.

expat You totally ignored my comment that the OP's husband is very likely to have told them he (or rather, his unwilling wife) would be the carer. OP's husband now needs to be crystal clear that he cannot care.

I've tried to give the OP practical and correct advice, not rant about MY (!) bad experiences or tell her what will happen. Far more helpful for the OP to know how to work within a system that she may not have navigated before.

'expat You totally ignored my comment that the OP's husband is very likely to have told them he (or rather, his unwilling wife) would be the carer.'

Because the OP said he told them he could come to theirs whilst care package was sorted out.

But please, continue to hijack this all and make it all about your feelings of affront and offense rather than being a grown up and taking it to PM if you have a personal issue with a particular poster.

That says more about you than me.

Hi horriblesil i used to work for an organisation who helped pwld and their families source housing and support they were absolutely brilliant, and real experts in their field. Their website is www. Housingandsupport.org.uk. Contact them as soon as you can they'll work with you to the absolute best for your BIL. Not all the services they offer are free but it's really worth having at least an initial chat with them. Good luck

I am trying to give the OP advice that I know to be correct; I am England based too and know the system very well...from both ends.

OP, Mencap operate around the country and I know they work around the Bristol area, although I don't know their exact role. They might be worth a phone call if you are able. Your husband needs to be clear that he or rather, you (!) cannot care even temporarily. It sounds like he has given them wishy washy information. They have a legal duty of care towards BIL, so I hope this gives you some comfort knowing that they cannot land this at your door.

Ah, here we go; www.keynshammencap.org.uk/
Mencap are a fantastic organisation, I cannot rate them highly enough. From a quick look at their website, they seem to do more social activities than anything else but they're likely to have links with people who can help you.

Did you post on here some time ago OP, after FIL died but MiL was still OK? If not there was a similar poster.

Yanbu to set and stick to your boundaries.

Hard for your H but hardly unforeseeable so he now needs to find a decent solution that doesn't involve you providing the care.

Hope all going well x

You have your rational hat on. Whilst DH sees that you are talking sense, his judgements are clouded by his emotions.

It is wrong that you have to abandon people to get ss involved! but that is the way it is and you have to play the game. You have no choice.

I think DH might also have to come to the realisation that looking round and choosing a home, might not be realistic, as you will have to take what is available at the time.

A sad state of affairs but you seem to know what you have to do. The second you take him home you've taken on the responsibility so ss won't have to.

Sympathise with DH, use this to campaign to get the politicians involved, but stick to your guns. YANBU

Lots of people are, understandably, posting about their personal experiences of moving in family and catering for them. But what is key here is the DH wants this, but the OP will be the one who - untrained, busy with kids, and had previously agreed she wouldn't do this - will be looking after BIL.

It's completely different from volunteering yourself.

OP, yanbu. Keep talking to your dh, he is vulnerable too and you will get through this by supporting each other.

'Catering', caring. Obv.

How depressing that people in need of care literally have to dumped with social services in order to get the care they require what does it say about our society.
I work with disabled children, this makes me so sad and fearful for their future.
Op, I hope your DH gets your bil care package sorted

Waiting by the phone to call social services!

DH wouldn't / couldn't say whether it was social services or him who suggested taking bil home with him whilst care was sorted. In my heart, I think it was my dh! I can envisage the conversation:

ss "I'm not sure what places are available, we may need longer than the 2 weeks you have taken off to find a place, esp as Easter falls in between."

dh "How long do you need? We can probably bring him home short term whilst you find a place."

ss "Really? That would be great. We can then ensure the placement fits him and is in a location that is best. Otherwise he will just get somewhere that comes up first, which could be the other side of the City etc"

dh "Okay. How long should it take?"

ss "Not long, think of it as a short holiday for your brother"

I can really see that having taken place. DH does take the hand break off his mouth before putting his brain into gear.

It then was Easter and I can well imagine social services think there is no real time pressure (or indeed no pressure at all). It is only that I went off like a nuclear bomb when dh told me.

DH wants it to be true and if I even slightly suggest that social services are manouvering a situation he goes mad at me. We will start off speaking reasonably, but then I remind him that bil needs to have a place locally to him and can't come to us. DH then goes bananas again and we are at each others' throats.

He won't tell me the truth. He is probably lying to himself. He is a negotiator as his job and he is used to manipulating 2 parties to get to an end result. He does it so much it comes naturally to him. He has done it to me before in different situations.

I am going to speak to social services today - all day, to ensure the message has got through.

It will be very interesting to see what they say to me. I'm waiting for the emotional pressure of "it will be difficult to get a place now in time", "your dh said you would look after your bil short term", "the only place seems to be the other side of Bath so bil won't be able to attend his usual clubs" etc.

Watch this space.

Sorry to hear it's still so difficult, I think your DH is being very unfair to you if he's treating you like a party in one of his business negotiations. I think you are doing the right thing contacting SS directly to ascertain what has been said and to correct any misperceptions. Make it absolutely clear that you are not prepared to have your BIL living with you, good luck.