To wish Nicola Sturgeon could be Pm

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She seems so genuine and actually seemed to care. She came across as strong though which means she is pm material.

Ps I know its impossible but we all have hopes.

Quite. A vote for the SNP does not mean a vote for a continuing neverendum. To say otherwise disregards the views of at least half of all voters in Scotland, not to mention everyone else in the UK who face having their economy and politics buggered about again for no good purpose.

It also ignores the fact that the SNP cleary need just a bit more time to deal with the questions they never answered before the referendum, ie, currency, EU membership and balancing the budget.

But what if you are pro-Scotland but not pro-independence?

As it stands you can be both because of the referendum.

But if independence is a "red line" for you surely any party that supports independence is going to be the worst, rather than the least worst....

Well if the SNP beat that referendum drum too hard, they might go the way of Parti Québécois.

But what if you are pro-Scotland but not pro-independence

Sorry - so many SNP threads I get mixed up! In this general election,.it doesn't matter if Scotland returns entirely SNP MPs, they are a such a small proportion of the government there is no way they could force through independence or anything else. So in the coming election no.problem with being .pro SNP anti Indy. Obviously this is different in 2016.

Is still think the point is moot though as I am fairly certain that there will be an informal arrangement between lab/Tories as their policies are so similar.

ItsAll:
"Unless you are suggesting that all of the pro-indy parties should have disbanded after the referendum, which is obviously ridiculous."

Er, No....

I am suggesting the SNP listens to the people of Scotland and realises there is no majority appetite for Referendum.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Or, is the SNP ONLY about IndyRef and I shouldn't vote for them unless I can support this.

Where do those who want to support Scotland as part of the UK go?
Would the SNP like them to go elsewhere (politically) rather than put Indy on the back burner?

And they also need to tell us how they'd deal with the mahoosive deficit, the EU, the currency etc before they start destabilising Scotland, economically and socially, again with their power trip...

Or, is the SNP ONLY about IndyRef and I shouldn't vote for them unless I can support this.

They are not only about independence no, but it is their raison d'etre , so IMO you would be fairly foolish to vote for an indy-supporting party in the Scottish elections if you dont support independence.

In the GE it matters less obviously.

Where do those who want to support Scotland as part of the UK go?
Would the SNP like them to go elsewhere (politically) rather than put Indy on the back burner?

Well it is your choice wether you want to vote a party who wants to support Scotland inside the UK or wether you want to vote a party who wants an independant Scotland.

Why are you expecting the SNP to do a 180 on their values ?? If you don't agree with them (along with 55% of the country) you can vote labour, lib dem, tory, SSP, green etc.

Well, I had hoped that the SNP could be more than a '1 trick pony', but obvs not...

A 'Scottish National Party' that doesn't listen to Scottish people.

Yes, it's me with the problem, obvs...

babyboomersrock Nice little bit of casual ageism too, for good measure. This thread has something for everyone. I'm what you'd probably consider elderly. Murphy has been the topic of several online exchanges this evening with equally "elderly" friends who find his views and presentation detestable. Why on earth would a woman find a man who is "insincere, slimy, vampirish" appealing? Do you think we lose all reason once we're over 60?

Personal experience - I know a number of older women who absolutely swoon over him. "Oh he's so handsome" "and so well presented" and so on. Theres no accounting for taste!

RedButtonHole I'm in Ayrshire, have never noticed anything untoward about Nicola Sturgeon's accent, but if there is anything odd about it then surely it would be because she has been coached in speaking to a wider audience, not out of any false pretence?

Its probably unfair to single out NS, but I do think there is a sort of central Scottish political accent used in the Scottish Parliament. At least, if you have an accent from other parts of Scotland, it can come across as a bit fake, depending on who is speaking. As I've said before, I'm sure linguists would have a field day.

Other points: I think the recent referendum has already caused economic damage to Scotland.

I also think the constitutional changes being introduced mean there is not that much difference between independence and remaining part of the UK now (unless you are a fervent nationalist). I certainly wouldn't want to pay more tax to move back to Scotland, when there are plenty of other countries that provide more with higher tax, along with lower levels of corruption and so on.

A UKIP party who doesn't listen to the will of the UK.. A BNP party who doesn't listen to the will of the british.

Its scottish nationalist party. Just because they have scottish in the title doesn't mean they have to listen to the whim of every scot. They make their stance on indepence extremely clear and people vote for them.
I don't like tories, but thats who the country voted for. Its called democracy. And the fact is although most in Scotland don't believe in an independant Scotland, they still believe SNP is best to represent in govournment. And so they vote accordingly.
Its absolutley ridiculous and your argument is like saying "Well UKIP should change their stance on the EU because i'm from the UK and I like the EU and they don't represent my beliefs."
How about you just don't vote for them?

As I've said before NS represents the policies of her party. And the people paying the membership fees do so because they want independence.

The No voters can't expect the SNP to just change their mind on that one.

However, she's not really calling for another referendum right now, is she?

IHAVEtogetoutofhere A 'Scottish National Party' that doesn't listen to Scottish people

Well, yes, that is the problem. Also that a Scottish National Party is proposing to spend vast sums of money on promoting Scottish independence and possible future referendums on the premise that Scots will be happy to pay more tax for a fairer and more just society.

But live and let live. I moved out. Admittedly, I was able to get a better job by moving to another country due to the field I'm in. But its such a relief living in a country which is settled, you don't have this constant turmoil, and best of all, there isn't this undercurrent of intolerance where you have to worry about what you say, in case you say the wrong thing to the wrong person and end up being subjected to the usual abuse that some people think passes as debate.

I am suggesting the SNP listens to the people of Scotland and realises there is no majority appetite for Referendum. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because the support for independence has grown, and so has their membership. Who knows what could change more people's minds. 10 years ago I laughed at the thought of voting SNP or yes for independence. Now I'm a party member, albeit a very backseat-just-paying-my-fees member.

Exactly primallass I didn't hear her say she is pushing for a ref in the next parliament, only that she wouldn't rule it out of future manifestos in future elections.

Quite sensible really. She'll listen to her voters and decide with her party what she wans to do. People will or will not vote SNP on that basis.

I'm sure linguists would have a field day.

If there was a field day to be had, then I'm sure they'd have had it by now.

I am suggesting the SNP listens to the people of Scotland and realises there is no majority appetite for Referendum. Why is that so hard to understand?

That's not likely to happen. The SNP present themselves in a way that they have an overriding goal, and that is change, or more particularly, constitutional change.

If we were in another part of the world, we would possibly be describing this in terms of revolution, not change. ie there are demands for a future revolution where the last one failed. I don't think you can under-estimate that kind of drive - it just won't be satisfied until that one primary goal is realised.

Surely the SNP doesn't claim to represent Scotland, only Scottish Nationalists? If they were to win then the majority would have voted for them, that's what democracy is.

This argument about her going against the views of the majority is bonkers anyway, as the vote was so close. If she'd been leader at the time of the referendum I think Yes might have won. Salmond always struck me as a bit of a wild eyed extremist where she seems much more mainstream. But I'm not Scottish...and I think independence would be a terrible thing for Scotland.

I admire her for doing her job well though. I can see her ability, even though I don't agree with her.

I feel the same way as discounted about Ruth Davidson. Has anyone seen her on Question Time recently? What an amazing politian, so well spoken, driven, and I get the impression she truly believes in values. Just a shame she's a tory!

Such a shame she's a Tory.

Hamiltoes - no, I don't vote for them.
But I don't appreciate being told I am a 'traitor' to Scotland for not voting IndyRef, for my children's teachers wearing SNP badges during the campaign, and for some of them being told their (English) parents were 'on the wrong side' during Flodden.
Businesses being threatened, the economy being destabilised etc instead of concentrating on the howling hole in fiscal policy...
It's not the 'whim of a few' - it was the MAJORITY OF SCOTTISH PEOPLE!!!

Primal - well, it's gone from 'once in a generation' to 'maybe next year' so, no, not next week but its back on the agenda and being spoken about in the very short term.

Reality check for the SNP - your policy on Independence was put to the Scottish People and it FAILED to convince. Just like last time. Just like it probably will next time.

Move on, and do something useful for Scottish people.

Discounted - I think the problem is that that SNP DOES claim to represent Scotland which was why there was such a lot of bullying about those who voted NO being 'not proper Scots' / traitors etc.
People were genuinely afraid to say they were voting NO.
That's why the pollsters got it wrong.

Have please link a source where an SNP official stance has been that voting no makes you a "traitor"?

Not noticed any myself.

And BTW i'd vote no if there was a referendum tomorrow, but I still vote SNP because I think their policies make sense. They can keep their indepence agenda all they like, doesn't concern me. Like you said, the people voted no.

I feel the same way as discounted about Ruth Davidson. Has anyone seen her on Question Time recently? What an amazing politian, so well spoken, driven, and I get the impression she truly believes in values.

I agree; I find her a more impressive individual. Overall, I see plenty of more skilled people in many fields than our politicians, who are a bit of a ropey bunch and I supposed you could argue Ruth Davidson has never proved herself even on the national stage at length, but she is very promising. She seems somehow more authentic than most, and comes across as very genuine. There isn't that awful snippiness about her that many politicians seem to have.

I get what you're saying Hamiltoes, except that having an independence agenda means spending loads of money on it, so it does concern you.

Ruth Davidson is so nice she even helped Jim Murphy with his tie troubles.

Or................she was trying to strangle him.