Me or DH? Or me or me?

[Bestoftimesworstoftimes]

Visit to in laws planned. Their place is small and a suggestion was made (from MIL to my husband- she and I don't talk much on phone, language barrier amongst other things) to accommodate us and kids. I vetoed this suggestion in favour of something I thought would suit everyone (all 3 generations) better. Husband relayed it as a joint decision and we are told (assume?) it's fine.

Now, much to my non-surprise, husband has got 'new information' from MIL why it is stressful to do it our way and why she'd prefer it like the original suggestion. He asked what do I think.

I was upset, not so much for the change of plan which fits a pattern of them doing things their way in the end anyway, but because he didn't anticipate my response. I was annoyed that the way he conveyed the situation to me was too clinical and did not recognise that in the past I do always let them have their way in the end, I don't want to cause trouble – we don't see them in their home for a small total of days throughout the year and I'm not out to be demanding. Husband and I have had issues which we are working on where I sometimes feel unappreciated or even downright neglected, particularly where his parents are around or involved and this just sparked something in me.

He thinks by asking my opinion again he was being helpful by leaving it open to me and was willing to support me whatever I would say. I say it is not fair/nice to make me re-decide in the face of new information against my original opinion and he should have realised that my view stays the same but I'm willing to bend it in the circumstances.

Am I asking too much? I'm not saying he should read my mind but based on prior history and us being a close, intimate couple on all other matters, surely this (my response) was obvious! He just didn't verbalise any anticipation of it at all, which to me has echoes of times where I felt invisible.

I am terrified that some bad past experiences are turning me into the kind of wife who is setting him up to fail and what ever he says is wrong- he has made mistakes which he absolutely takes responsibility for and we are working on, but I would be disturbed if I was transforming into someone so negative.

AIBU?

This is a generalisation and slightly off topic (though related) but I'd be particularly interested in hearing from people whose husbands used to be 'mamas boys' and then learned to man up - how did you both cope with the interim period when new habits were being formed?

for the record we do stay at another location because no space in their flat
the ‘story’ that intrigues everyone so (and will definitely out me so if you recognise me do say hi!)
MIL asked whether she should move the dining room table into the sitting room for the kids (2 little ones) to take daytime naps or should she clean out the tiny spare room. (the only other bedroom being their own).
And...

• Since the spare room is full of useless junk (not my assumption, i KNOW some of it could have gone decades ago)
• and moving the table means the sitting room becomes over crowded and uncomfortable,
• plus the kids probably wont sleep well in the dining room anyway as there is an interconnecting door to the sitting room.
• AND when awake they will probably play in the dining room anyway (as no space left in sitting room) which means we will end up their anyway supervising them with no couches or table/chairs (the room is not childproof - 5th floor and no bars on windows to name one major hazard). ... i said i prefer for all our sakes that they clear spare room. but now she is saying that she is quite stressed about preparing for our visit and clearing the spare room is just one more thing so she asked again should she move the table. she is not a very well woman and generally goes to a lot of effort to have us within her abilities so i just say in my head 'heck it is their house and their choice. if they want them and us to be uncomfortable for ten days fine. we can cope' we anyway sleep somewhere else at night so have that break. when i was first asked my opinion i gave it for the reasons above but i genuinely don’t think it is worth insisting she clears the room if it is that big a deal for her. to me this change is obvious and thought my husband would realise this.

I hope that gives the perspective for which people were curious. Let me just say again I do NOT CARE that she is now doing what she wanted all along (and does my head in by asking opinion in the first place). The fundamental issue was and always has been the unnecessary trouble my husband and I have communicating about these kind of things. I tried to make this clear in the OP and subsequent posts am not sure why people still think I am agitated about the issue when I am more concerned my husband and my communication is not easy or smooth in these matters.

for what its worth we have had a long chat now (instead of packing!) and it appears he did anticipate i would probably give way here but wasnt sure (hence checking) and i acknowledged a bunch of stuff including that i jumped down his throat too early. we have 'kissed and made up' and hope to get better at this. more communication tips or advice on how to separate from past issues, relax and move forward are welcome!

So you are trying to dictate how she runs her home for your convenience - you are being unreasonable.

we have had a long chat now (instead of packing!) and it appears he did anticipate i would probably give way here but wasnt sure (hence checking)

Which is what we were all saying to you OP. Glad you got it sorted. Did you tell him that next time he can make the decision himself and you won't mind, or will he still be having to check with you in case it's an 'extreme' one

Glad you've had a chat and you both seem to have recognised where you went adrift and that's a great start and something positive to build on.

I'm mulling over a few tips, will be back shortly.

Auntiedee- what? I'm flabbergasted! Apart from the fact this thread has never been directly about my MIL the order of events is MIL made a suggestion via my husband and asked if we want it. We/he told her no thanks. She asked again saying it's stressful to follow through and would rather do her suggestion anyway and so we said fine. What am I dictating? How?

Ignore it OP, I don't think you were unreasonable in that respect. I too, if asked for a preference, would have said the spare room would be best.

Btw could the children have an afternoon nap on MIL's bed if they needed it? That would not involve any inconvenience to anyone would it and she would not need to move furniture around at all.

AuntieDee, if you are asked what your preferences are and you say then how does that mean you are trying to dictate how she runs her home?

The MIL asked for suggestions but has now decided to disregard them, as is her prerogative in her own home.

OP, now that you are clearer I would say that you aren't actually being at all unreasonable, but just let it go.

Your kids will be fine in whatever room MIL deems best for them to sleep in.

Gosh. Your MIL asked your opinion on how best to accommodate you on your visit when you aren't even staying but then had to give up on the idea involving a lot of extra work because she is 'not a well woman'. Bless her heart sounds like she is trying her best and seems very unfair to come here going on about her 'having form' when this was only about such a trivial issue - like how she might arrange the furniture in her OWN home!

I know you have said you didn't mind what she does in this case but am not sure you agreeing deserves all the hearts and flowers you are demanding. You are just visiting, it's up to her. She had the grace to consult you which was very nice of her even if she did have to change back.

Glad you are your DH have talked OP but you really do need to chill out.

I think you have been very patient, OP.

How many more bloody times does the poor woman have to say the DETAILS ARE IRRELEVANT, it is the communication that is the issue?

It's like people are so feeble-minded, or so desperate to talk about nit-picking details, they are unable to understand this simple fact.

I think the details are relevant as they give clarity to posts that are like wading through treacle. I thought the OP was being precious and unreasonable but now she has given the details I want to revise that and say that I think YANBU and that I would also be annoyed too.

For me the details highlight the elusive point the OP was struggling to pin down. It goes to the core of who she is as a person and her husband not knowing who that person is and therefore needing to ask. Like when my dad died and I told my mum that DH would pay for the funeral as she couldn't. I didn't ask him if it was ok first because I know the person he is and what matters to him.

In this instance the OP's DH showed he doesn't know the person she is and what matters to her. She expressed a preference because she was asked but ultimately it's not her decision to make and she knows that. From what she says it's not in her nature to insist on her way at the best of times when she has the right to do so, so that's never going to happen when she has no right to do it. Her DH should know that and by asking her the second time it gives the impression he thinks she may well be the sort of person to force her opinion onto others when it is inappropriate.

Oh dear, now my posts are like treacle. I suppose it's like:

MIL: Would you like lamb or beef when you come round on Sunday?
DH: I'll ask Hedgehogs
Hedgehogs: Lamb would be fab

2 days later ...

MIL: The lamb was 10x the price so I got the beef instead. Will that be OK?
DH: That's fine, don't worry (because I know my wife isn't a dick who'll throw her toys out of her pram if the lamb doesn't materialse)

Another who now thinks YwNbU:
essentially Mil did what I sometimes often do.
She gave you two options, you picked one, she decided she had a preference after all.
Perhaps she was being optimistic/unrealistic in whether she could clear a room in time/full stop but she shouldn't have asked your opinion then given it you
Ah well.
Dh probably thought he was on thin ice giving a fait accompli to you, knowing you had given your preference, but you are correct in thinking this was a non-brainer, do what's best for you Mum.
Hope you have an okay time in any case OP, you sound like you were stuck between rock and a hard place

Hello op.

I'm sorry but even now you've explained the situation a bit more, I'm still struggling to see how you and your husband might've communicated better / differently

It seems to me that you husband consulted you about the reversion back to the mil's original plan, not because he thinks you're a controlling witch, or that you would throw your toys out of the pram, but because he thought that was the polite / right thing to do

It seems he can't do right for doing wrong. You want him to put you first over his mom. Yet you are also not happy when he consults you about something to do with his mom

Either way, I don't think I could live at this pitch of relationship analysis It sounds exhausting.

BitOutOfPractice, your last sentence just sums it up for me.

Op, I can't, for the life of me, work out why you need to analyse what is, (sorry) a really mundane, boring situation and your and your DH's reactions. Do you pick everything apart like this?

I think, in all honesty, I'd rather have no relationship that a relationship that caused me this much angst. Im saying this from your Dh's point of view as well.

You will, no doubt, say you are picking this apart as its symptomatic of a wider issue, but how can you live like this? If the problems between you are so great that this type of everyday event causes you this much soul searching, do you really want to be in the relationship? Analysing absolutely everything everyone says - it really must be exhausting.

I simply couldn't live my life like this. I couldn't have a partner who did this. Relationships should enhance your life, not cause this amount of work and negativity. I fully accept that relationships change and evolve and aren't always easy, but there's a tipping point, surely? Where is your tipping point? And it may be worth considering, where is your DH's tipping point?

Why don't you offer to help her clear the room while you are there so it is ready for the next time.

I'm really hoping you don't spend 10 days sitting in a flat and that you all go out sometimes!!

I think hedgehog explains the OPs point well and I can kind of see that side of things now, but there is some serious over reacting bythe OP to the fact that her DH is trying very hard to do the right thing (even if he isn't quite getting it right). Credit for making an effort is due.

Hedgehog the last paragraph of your 13.32 post nearly made me tear up. It is a simple, eloquent and accurate description of what I have been trying to tell my husband for a long time. My distress started because I would like to think my husband married me precisely for such qualities but instead I got complete oblivion that they even exist. After certain bad experiences even when I intellectually knew he valued those parts of me, I began to crave his recognition and overreact like in the OP when I didn't immediately get it (sounds childish I know but see below for more background).

Bitoutof and yesidid - I completely agree. It is exhausting, abnormal and unhealthy. However I will qualify that by saying that a thread like this can only paint a one or at best two dimensional view of the people involved. Nowhere in the above can you see all the reasons I adore my husband and fell in love with him in the first place, it doesn't describe his amazing personal qualities - which I won't begin to list as any attempt will be reductionist - or give any insight into the unique glue holding us together. We do enhance each other's life in a personal, intimate way. Of course I don't always analyse 'mundane, boring situations and the parties involved reactions' in this intense way and I never used to with him either. So where did all this hard work come from?

What brought me to this place is a few specific incidents that were hurtful and damaged my confidence and trust in him. I tried to broach it and every attempt was met with a humble and contrite 'I'll try better'. Tender and touching at the time but in practise nothing changed. Eventually this pattern only intensified the original issues and I gradually became bitter and more resentful. Although the type of incidents in the OP are infrequent and always occur in relation to the same few set of circumstances (mainly his parents visits) it began to cloud my view all the time and I began to see any tiny incident as symptomatic of the core issues. There was almost a visual layering effect in my mind and certainty the lack of closure on the first incidents began to act as a magnet for bad stuff. To cut a long story (somewhat) shorter this negativity spread to almost our whole relationship till eventually I reached, as you say, 'my tipping point' - and I believe brought him pretty close to his. At that critical point the penny dropped that it was shape up or ship out. This was quite recently and since then small changes have occurred. Small yes, but given the history they are very positive and impressive changes to the status quo and they are coming from a good, sweet place inside him (the place where I belong!)

and that is how this thread began - I realise that since he is making an effort I am not justified in wallowing in hurt and anger but I find it difficult to switch off from the past. I was suspicious but not 100% sure if I was unfair or overreacting and now it is confirmed here I was BU, at least to some degree. Posters all over this thread have said that I need to chill, relax, give him a break, give him credit for trying, stop criticising and/or laying landmines etc etc - and they are absolutely right. I hope this story provides an explanation or at least sheds some light on why I find it difficult to do this automatically, even though I would usually say that I am a tolerant, giving person!

I hope this was not too treacly, jelly like, complex or obscure to wade through... I'm writing on my phone with poor internet connection (we have arrived at our destination.)

Too much use of the word incidents in the above - I don't mean it to sound so mysterious and sinister just meant that even something like forgetting to take the rubbish out (made up example) would turn into a 'see he's neglecting me/doesn't appreciate me/doesn't put me first/is oblivious' kind of downward spiral in my head. I knew it wasnt rational and tried to stop it but struggled

Have some and OP, your English is fine and you have been incredibly patient.

Oh and it is inconsiderate not to put the bins out. My other half thought for years that there was a huge mitigating difference between 'not thinking' and 'thoughtless'. His excuse was always the former ie didn't think about it/wasn't thinking and therefore because:
it wasn't calculated/deliberate/conscious/premeditated/with forethought or malice that I:
shouldn't be pursed lips/stroppy/naggy/resentful/reactive/accusatory or drama queeny about it
(spoiler: it was never just about the flippin binbags
It took a while before he realised that by being passive/blind/learned helpless/pretend useless and that by 'not thinking' he was actually being thoughtless and the net result on me would be the same whether he had meant to be selfish or not (newsflash: there is no blinkin binbag fairy

Haha eggy. That all sounds VERY familiar. What helped him realise?

I. talked. very. sloooowwwwllllyyyy
No, seriously, we sat down and I told him that not thinking was still thoughtless in the same way that manslaughter, whilst not being premed murder, is still a dead body. He liked that analogy. so close dh so close
Even with that Damascus moment, he needs poking with a stick to do stuff but I tend to go for the direct approach these days. Oi!! Binbags! Now! < channelling Catherine Tate>
I have been known to whatsapp a request or pm him if we are playing words with friends against each other, if I can put binbags on a triple word score, all to the good. I know how to live,me
Happy Easter OP x

That analogy is very good. Reminds me of something I once heard which sums up a lot of what's going on here ' we judge others by their actions but ourselves by our motives'.

Not sure I got your last part- do you mean you'd get him to help you manipulate the game to have some private fun?? That's quite funny, cute even (Though surely bin bags is at best under 40points maximum, even on a triple score with an s at the end)

I do get where you are coming from OP and hope this thread has helped. Sometimes you just need to talk about stuff. Hope your visit goes well.