Me or DH? Or me or me?

[Bestoftimesworstoftimes]

Visit to in laws planned. Their place is small and a suggestion was made (from MIL to my husband- she and I don't talk much on phone, language barrier amongst other things) to accommodate us and kids. I vetoed this suggestion in favour of something I thought would suit everyone (all 3 generations) better. Husband relayed it as a joint decision and we are told (assume?) it's fine.

Now, much to my non-surprise, husband has got 'new information' from MIL why it is stressful to do it our way and why she'd prefer it like the original suggestion. He asked what do I think.

I was upset, not so much for the change of plan which fits a pattern of them doing things their way in the end anyway, but because he didn't anticipate my response. I was annoyed that the way he conveyed the situation to me was too clinical and did not recognise that in the past I do always let them have their way in the end, I don't want to cause trouble – we don't see them in their home for a small total of days throughout the year and I'm not out to be demanding. Husband and I have had issues which we are working on where I sometimes feel unappreciated or even downright neglected, particularly where his parents are around or involved and this just sparked something in me.

He thinks by asking my opinion again he was being helpful by leaving it open to me and was willing to support me whatever I would say. I say it is not fair/nice to make me re-decide in the face of new information against my original opinion and he should have realised that my view stays the same but I'm willing to bend it in the circumstances.

Am I asking too much? I'm not saying he should read my mind but based on prior history and us being a close, intimate couple on all other matters, surely this (my response) was obvious! He just didn't verbalise any anticipation of it at all, which to me has echoes of times where I felt invisible.

I am terrified that some bad past experiences are turning me into the kind of wife who is setting him up to fail and what ever he says is wrong- he has made mistakes which he absolutely takes responsibility for and we are working on, but I would be disturbed if I was transforming into someone so negative.

AIBU?

This is a generalisation and slightly off topic (though related) but I'd be particularly interested in hearing from people whose husbands used to be 'mamas boys' and then learned to man up - how did you both cope with the interim period when new habits were being formed?

Loveareading-
you are partly right- I DOwant him to be better at to be better at predicting and ideally acknowledge it but not necessarily to make the actual decision. To use your analogy the story would've continued with your husband being touched if you would say 'I thought you would like X what do you think' so he knows you are in tune with him (I'm not saying he would like this I'm just building on your analogy)

Stormtreader - you are right, that ironic thing is that previously HE did not have the team view which is how the problems and anger) started. Something else has obviously gone awry with me- that is what I'm trying to figure out.

Sorry lovareading just saw you wrote DP. Apologies

I agree with MrsTedCrilly. I think you need to give him some credit that he is trying and recognise that but I agree if he says 'I need to talk to the wife' and then comes back with a no it looks like you are supplying the no. Better for him to have said ' That's not what WE all planned and WE will need to have a think about it, I will get back to you."

Having said that, please do not expect him to know this on his own, many partners do not all think alike and what may be obvious to one is not to the other!

Also, I would say if you parents in law are older, and have health issues, I would give as much leeway to them as you can. This is not always easy I am sure. But the reality is they may not be around for ages so why not decide in advance what really is OK, you and your dh, and then just say that. So for example if there house is cramped etc but OK for kids and they want you to stay, try and stay but only for as long as you can manage. But if the house is dangerous (in the middle of renovations etc) say we will stay at local Travel lodge because of the building work, and get DH to say it as WE will be staying at travel lodge because of building work etc.

Good luck.

Nanny - correct.

Fairenuff - that is my point, by this time in our relationship he should know I'm nonconfrontational and when his mother/father has form for doing this I usually do simply say 'okay if it's that important I will do it her way'. I was upset that after all our discussions of noticing and appreciating my contribution to making these visits positive and working and accommodating their idiosyncrasies (again not malicious but sometimes to me a little crazy), he again couldn't anticipate that this is what I would do because this is what I ALWAYS do. Because I'm nice.

I guess I'm just needy for praise and encouragement

I'm nonconfrontational and when his mother/father has form for doing this I usually do simply say 'okay if it's that important I will do it her way'.

It seems that you are the one who needs to change your behaviour OP. You need to learn to be assertive and to be happy with that.

What would happen if you said you still want to do 'y'?

Fairenuff -I have learned to be assertive about more fundamental things. And both of our habits and interactions with each other and my in-laws are slowly changing.
This was a relatively minor issue where
I was asked my opinion
I gave it (as y)
Husband supported me
I was then told they still prefer to do x
And I got annoyed that my husband could not anticipate that on this minor issue, given they are so stressed about it, we would of course do x!
I will not insist on the y option just for the sake of it. It would not be kind to them or worth it for what it is. I was upset he could not read me better – this is something I'm very sensitive about at the moment.

Sounds to me like he is acting as a middle man between you and MIL, rather than an active negotiator with a position of his own on the matter. Unfortunately, this means he has relinquished any responsibility for these types of arrangements to you.

IME, this type of approach does tend to be common in "mama's boys" who have been brought up to defer to their mothers. He won't challenge her, has probably never challenged her because he is afraid of the consequences of upsetting her, but he is also not going to challenge you either because you are his wife.

So he just withdraws from actively engaging with the situation and just plays messenger boy between the two of you. This is actually very unfair to you as his wife because it puts the onus of finding a compromise or a satisfactory solution onto you rather than him, when really it is him that needs to negotiate a solution as the issue is between his DM and his DW.

This means that you are always going to feel as though you are made to alter your needs and opinions to suit his parents while no one else in the equation wants to be inconvenienced -- and your DH doesn't even want to be bothered to consider a solution. The way he is behaving designates all this as "your work", even though it involves his parents.

I reckon this is why you are feeling so annoyed about what he has done. You want him to engage with the situation, not act like a postman.

FWIW, I do suspect this sort of stance on the part of a DH is how resentment grows and how damage is done to relationships between PILs and DILs.

Wow worksallhours! That is exactly what I have been trying to explain to him for a couple of years. We are a close knit couple but this kind of postman interaction has definitely driven a wedge between us. I have begged him before that where his parents are involved he must take a more proactive, even dare I say it leadership, stance. And that as the middleman he must build bridges between us to find common meeting ground.
I am horrified that I have turned from what I thought was a generous loving person, wife, daughter in law into a bitter and resentful one. Your insight is very helpful and appropriate and just the sort of thing I was hoping to hear I think I may show it to him.
I do still recognise that as he is trying to improve and be a team/couple in all things I must be more patient and chilled, respectful of his efforts and even appreciative. Otherwise according to AIBU IABU!

I will not insist on the y option just for the sake of it. It would not be kind to them or worth it for what it is

This is where you are not assertive though OP. He asked you what you wanted, you told him and now he asks you to clarify you are choosing to back down. Yes, it's a choice. You cannot keep blaming him for your actions.

Btw, I asked what would have happened if you had done this and said you wanted to stick to 'y'? I think this is what you need to focus on. It will help you. What would actually happen if you did 'y'?

I know it's a choice. It's my choice because of who I am – the person he married. I would like him to anticipate my choices better based on knowing me very well and previous history of these kind of situations.
I have stuck with option y in other cases. Not the inflammatory one last night- which struck a nerve not because of the context but because of its lacking the husband/wife intimacy I desire

By context - I mean the X and Y options.

Fairenuff - i'm not trying to sidestep your question and will think about it. What I wrote above is my first reaction, which is to clarify that this thread is not about option X and Y it's about the way my husband communicates with me, his parents and channels talk between us.

I hope you don't mind me asking but...
If your DH took a proactive, decisive role in making arrangements with his family (which is what you say you want him to do), how would you react if he made a independent decision which was different from the decision you would have made? Would you accept his decision, or would you feel betrayed that he had not anticipated and acted on your unspoken wishes.

I know you are not trying to avoid the question, OP but I think that this is the key to understanding your behaviour.

You are obviously a 'people pleaser' and you care very much about how others view you. You put your needs below other peoples much of the time. It's ok to change this.

My question was asked to try and get to the 'what's the worst that could happen' scenario to help you see that it's not actually as bad as it seems to let their be consequences for other people.

So your MIL might be a bit tired or uncomfortable, for example. Well, she has choices too. She can find ways to overcome her own obstacles. It doesn't have to be one person's way or the other.

I think you are asking a lot to expect your dh to understand this when you don't even understand it yourself yet. But you are getting there. Don't expect him to read your mind or understand your anxiety because that's like someone telling you to just 'chill out' over it. It's not that simple.

It takes time to work out what is at the root of the problem. I think the answer might lie with you OP, not him.

I say it is not fair/nice to make me re-decide in the face of new information against my original opinion and he should have realised that my view stays the same but I'm willing to bend it in the circumstances

He can't win can he? Of course you should have to re-decide in the 'face of new information'. How can you make a decision without all the information? He wasn't to know you wouldn't budge, unless he knows you've got form for being stubborn

So as an example essentially MIL wants you to stay in situ at Easter and you would rather stay in a hotel to get some peace/action and visit during day.
This was relayed but not accepted as MIL wants to see you in entirety or prepare lunch knowing you are already there etc
DH in this scenario knows what you want but instead of saying Sorry this is what we are doing, agrees to talk you round. So you end up the bad guy, controlling DIL.
In the above example I would be hacked off at having to martyr myself again.
Unless it really doesn't matter, in which case it is the principle (wee bit immature but lip service of I could have got my own way had I really wanted to...if that's all you want to feel, that you are top dog so to speak, then you need to cut out the martyrdom/drama of the decision making).
I cannot make my Dh enthusiastic about housework or wanting to do something like a family fun day event because he wants to as opposed to being told to. For him it's enough that he is prepared to pitch in but he cannot fake wanting to, as who wants to do housework. If your Dh is meh about sleeping arrangements as an example and really couldn't care less, then he is going to pass the buck, you can't make him care. He will simply do the Path of least resistance/outcome that brings the least conflict.

Plus you are doing a mixed message there OP (wash me but don't make me wet). You are saying you want A but you could bend to B. Either you want A or you don't...he knows you might bend so is putting it back onto you. Whereas you want him to want A as much as you do that he doesn't ask you to cave.

Best to me you don't know what you want so how you can expect your husband to know is beyond me. I think he can't do right for doing wrong.

You say you can't talk to his mother as there is a language barrier, therefore he has to relay to you what is being said/discussed. He is being polite and respectful and not cutting you out due to your inability to converse directly with his mother.

You want to know what's happening and be part of the decision making process, which he has to communicate to his mother because you can't so you have made him the middleman/postman. In the next breath you want him to make a decision and then say to you "Mum came back with a different option that suited her better and as you're such a nice, kind person and I knew you wouldn't mind I agreed to it." The reason your dh wouldn't do this is because he suspects you will react badly, so you are not communicating effectively with him.

All round it just seems a complete and utter nonsense way to carry on, you don't just want it both ways you want it all ways and three times round the dance floor for good measure.

I think you're being odd. Sorry.

I'm trying to imagine a similar situation for me and my dh:

DH - MIL wants us to eat out at x on easter sunday
Me - It would be easier for everybody if we ate at y
Relayed to MIL
Later:
DH - MIL has now said she really would prefer to eat at x, y doesn't suit her because....

Now in this case my DH would come to me and ask how strongly I felt about y vs x. He'd ask if it was important enough to me to stick to our guns, or if we would be ok really with going with MILs suggestion instead.

I wouldn't mind DH asking me... I wouldn't expect him to know how strongly I feel about y vs. x without discussing it again....

Does that work as a similar situation??

Grays and emotions - I was worried exactly that I was setting him to up fail. Hence the (uber)analysis. However he knows I have form for people pleasing as PP wrote - I wanted some recognition for this as to me it's obvious that the new information requires we give way in this particular case. Why should he think I would react badly to this? Genuine question. I just want thanks for bending and the space to prefer another option that may/may not happen.
(By the way emotions - language barrier as being polite (though we don't share a first language). Apart from that she is at best unclear and at worst erratic. A bit like me maybe?!)

On that note Mrscakes - although it may not seem so here I'm actually quite flexible and easy-going. I don't mind the actual tangible outcome as much as I mind the communication especially verbal recognition and gratitude. This is something I have expressed to my husband and he is trying to improve on and accommodate my need for this as much as possible. (By the way this 'need' became much more present and foremost after he let me down a few times)

Fairenuff - I find your last post quite compassionate. You have certainly identified a few things I need to face up to. Especially as I am conscious that till now all the need for change has focused on him – this did not sit well with me as I'm aware that even if he made he more obvious outright mistakes it does of course take 2 to tango and once I got over the initial hurt there would be work for me to do. In terms of parents in law it took a long time for me to realise that some of their behaviour is not acceptable and they would have to live with my(our?) drawing the line. Those things have stopped and all is fine but sadly even little incidents are still triggering for me as evidenced by this thread.

Gettingeggy- I like your style

I'm really sorry but I don't understand what you want.

You don't want him to question you again so just stick to what you said, without letting you know because you don't want the extra info

But now you're saying you're a people pleaser so he should have know that you'd sway and want thanks for bending?

I'm genuinely confused as to what you want OP, it looks like this is a very complex issue with you and your DH and difficult to comment on.

Museum – that's fine. I understand. But now that we are six years into these kind of scenarios repeating themselves I was hoping he would have my measure better. Mrs TC on the first page explains this well.

Grays - I never said he should've just stuck to what I originally said.
You're second summary is what I have been saying since the beginning. Yes it's complicated because of some ongoing issues that are starting thankfully to change. Hence my seeking objective outsider views.

Sorry your not you're. Predictive texting!

Yes, you are a people pleaser but that does not mean that this one time, you are going to give in, especially after making a big deal about being included in the decision-making process.

He can be pretty sure that you would have given in but wanted to make sure that is still the case before saying so to his parents. Part of the decision-making process.

Sorry, but it's still lose lose for him.