To want IDS to crawl back into the primordial slime from whence he came!

[Dawndonnaagain]

Latest leaks on welfare cuts, may just be ideas being posited but still fucking nasty.

The cuts will come from CB and a benefits cap from 26 k down to 23 K. Which many people support. 23k a year of untaxed income plus free this and that is very generous still and far far more than many working people get by on.

To quote from the article:

Iain Duncan Smith said: "This is ill-informed and inaccurate speculation."

I'll keep my whinging til something is actually proposed.

Quite, Somewhere.

Like I say, Pick N Mix Belief going on here.

Here's a better idea.....
All the billionaires who keep their British-made money in off-shore accounts, or have their billionaires row homes in central London owned by their umbrella companies in places like Antigua, (y'know, people like Margaret Thatcher, allegedly so that Carol & Mark didn't have to pay inheritance tax), why don't the government tax them & remove their benefit of legal loopholes that conveniently allow them to syphon off billions. A better idea? After all, we're all in this together!

"I'm not sure how it works though so am I wrong in assuming all carers' get it now regardless of family income?"

It's based on personal income, you can earn up to about £100 a week, after that it's cut.

Except that around half of that is elderly benefits, Edsgreypatch, which is ring-fenced, so the cuts are falling on other vulnerable groups.

Jobseekers allowance and Income Support expenditure ADDED TOGETHER come to a smidge under £12bn (2012 figures) so that's not really 'a drop in the ocean', is it?

The problem with Daily-Mail-pleasing gestures like benefits cap at 23k and CB at 2 kids, is that that really is a drop in the ocean, despite the excitable media coverage, it affects relatively few people.

Too slow Frances - do keep up. George announced major loophole closing in the pre election budget.

Shame Labour did nowt in 13 years in power, eh? Mind you - the tax evasion laws did mean the Milibands could hang on to their multi million pound properties nice and easily .

dawn as a nurse, i get what you are saying, my lot have had enough beefs with politics in the past as well as now. what i was saying that if people don't vote they can't complain, nothing will ever suit everyone, but sticking my neck on the line, i totally disagree with so much foreign aid and costly eu membership, that is money that should be helping people in this country, not going aboard to help india build nuclear weapons and the like.

Hang on - Edsgreypatch - you seriously believe that reducing the benefits cap from £26k to £23k is going to save £12bn? Wow, you are a Tory politician's dream

Or do you actually not care who is affected, as long as you're all right jack?

The eligibility and conditionality for Universal Credit are so narrow that it's simply not true to say that only those receiving UC need Carer's Allowance.

Disability brings significant extra costs and ties up family members in care so they can't do little things like leave the house, sleep, pop to the shops.

This is why DLA (renamed PIP and cut %20) is not taxed. It's not income-replacement, it's health and social care. Except, taxing DLA/PIP is one of the proposals too.

The Conservatives seem to love making benefit cuts that don't actually achieve anything by way of savings, because they perceive that their supporters like it. They did it with legal aid, where the cuts have in fact resulted in far greater costs to the pubic purse than the amount saved.

Cutting carers' allowances would be right in line with that, because if families can't afford both to live and to care for their disabled relatives the burden cannot but fall back on the state. I've come across cases where the families of disabled children are saving the state a fortune because the only alternative would be for the children to be in 52 week residential care costing tens and even hundreds of thousands of pounds a year. If these cuts are put in place, for those families it will undoubtedly tip the balance.

This report may be speculation, but it is directly in line with the Conservatives' past conduct in making cuts for the sake of posturing. Their actions throughout this government towards the vulnerable have been utterly despicable, and sadly it is only too believable that they fully intend to continue.

Except, taxing DLA/PIP is one of the proposals too.

no, there are no "proposals" - there is merely "speculation"

And yes, thank you, I do understand that this is at the discussion stage.

But I find waiting till things are set in law a little late to comment. So I'm perfectly happy to tell the Conservatives and anyone else what my opinion would be IF they carried through their suggestions.

Which, let's face it, is why they're leaking this shit, isn't it?

I've never seen such a leaky government before an election. Couple of weeks ago it was a child benefit cap, before that something else. They're running stuff up the flagpole and seeing who salutes it.

But I find waiting till things are set in law a little late to comment. So I'm perfectly happy to tell the Conservatives and anyone else what my opinion would be IF they carried through their suggestions.

^
This!

So all those mumbling and looking at their feet and saying it isn't set in stone, can I ask you:

If further cutting disability support WERE in the manifesto, would you vote for it?

Gawd taxing disabled people on benefits received to help with their disability
That sounds very fair

Vote anyone but Conservative

I'll keep my whinging til something is actually proposed.

Should I inform dh that this is what he is to do, rather than call someone who may be able to help him?

Mind you, the cuts have been so great, they may just leave me to pick up the pieces. Whilst dealing with narcoleptic dd, and dd with EDS. Should be a great weekend. They won't actually be cutting the 65 quid a week they give me for looking after three disabled people, I guess I should count myself lucky.

Well, um, actually the disability cuts were started by Labour.

Don't know if they would have gone as far as the Coalition already has, and the Conservatives are further discussing. But it's in no way the case that the vulnerable are safe under Labour.

I honestly don't have a scooby who to vote for.

It's just speculation, not a proposal or going through as law.

The cap of £23k is still too high, more could be gained by lowering it. Benefits should not be paying more than a lot of people earn by working.

Child benefit stopping after two children is also not the end of the world, it's a parents job to provide for their children.

DLA is not means tested so it can be claimed by everyone regardless of household income. Should it be taxed, not really as its state money in the first place. Just freeze it for a few years if savings are needed rather than over complicate things.

CA is dependant upon household income, therefore rolling it in with UC makes sense. So much has been spent on the system it should be used to its maximum potential.

They could leave CA and DLA alone and simply remove IS for lone parents after a child reaches age 1 (with no new claim for further children). That would save more and make it equal for all new mums. Either you work or your stay home at no cost to the state.

But when the Tories promise no VAT rises etc people quickly jump up to accuse them of false promises and lies?

But isn't thos because they promised the same last time then promptly raised them when they got into power?

Wise words Monsters - 100% agree with you.
Wasn't there much gnashing of teeth here about the audacity of David Cameron claiming DLA?

Agree with icimoi, a lot of these cuts are like pressing down bubbles in wallpaper, the problem just pops up elsewhere.

Including the benefits cap; the only reason you'd get that much in practise is if you have several kids and are claiming HB for a London rent in a few specific areas.
So we turf people out of their homes, away from their family, friends and support network, the kids have to move schools, they have the difficulty of finding somewhere to live that accepts HB, maybe a few months in a B&B - you're fucking up their whole lives for a cheap headline and a few quid savings.

With regard to Cameron claiming DLA, his son was entitled to it. It's not always about the money, it opens other channels which, with regard to care can be really useful.
However, freezing DLA for those of us unable to work due to committments to a number of disabled people, doesn't help us either, unfortunately, the price of everything we require continues to rise, whilst income doesn't. Life really is more expensive if you have a disability in so many ways, large, eg. the cost of wheelchairs and small, the cost of finger splints. Then you need to take in things like the cost of specialised diets and the cost of medicine if you are not on any other benefits. Dhs meds cost £56.00 per month. You can get a yearly thing which brings it down significantly, but when you're doing that for three people, again the cost is quite a bit.

These are 'dog whistle' leaks, really, aren't they.

Paxman pins DC down on not being able to specify where his 12bn of spending cuts will come from, so they leak some Tory-friendly ideas like this, and cross their fingers that people like Edsgreypatch will be perfectly happy with that and not look at the sums any further.

They're sending out the message to their supporters - "Don't worry, we're only going to cut from feckless breeders firing out 16 kids in a Chelsea mansion, or those lazy 'disabled' people who are probably faking it anyway. Not from nice middle-class people like you, or your poor sick granny over there."

Yes, I don't have a problem withe Cameron claiming DLA either.

I have a BIG problem with him claiming DLA and stopping other people whose life and health depend on it, from claiming it.