to wonder why you think I care about your marital status?

[JessieMcJessie]

I've just received an email from the personal assistant to someone I am meeting later today. Her standard signature at the bottom of the e-mail (name changed of course) is

Mrs Brenda Jones

I sometimes see communications from other women signed off "Brenda Jones (Mrs)"

Why on earth do people do this? Do any of you do this?

NB although her name is not really Brenda, it was an unmistakeably female name, so it wasn't to stop any confusion about her gender. And I myself have a unisex first name but I still never put Mrs on my letters or emails (nor Miss before I was married).

I suppose it's just old fashioned but how awful that society ever thought that marital status and ability to do a job were in any way connected.

I think Miss sounds younger than Mrs.

I will also correct people if I'm called Miss, just as I would if they got my first name wrong.

If you want to be called Miss - fine
If you want to be called Mrs - fine
If you want to be called Ms - fine too!
Just get it right.

I think Mrs Brenda Jones was just trying to be clear.

Perhaps she dislikes Ms as much as I do.

Isn't there a cultural element to this too? If she regularly emails people in different countries?

For instance, in Japan you would never refer to someone by their given name, it's always 'So and so - san'. Or in Germany people can sometimes be very formal, and you're often expected to use the title + surname of the person you're emailing.

I don't get particularly bothered about these things and as far as I'm concerned people can call themselves what they want. I am regularly assumed to be a Miss because I look so young, and no one ever, ever pronounces my surname correctly. Hey ho.

I think that people should just respect whatever it is someone has asked to be called, and not judge them for using a certain name or title.

I just read babbity's post about people who change their names when they get married are 'thick'.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha face palm.

Those who want to be called Mrs...do you think it's better because you imagine you will get more respect if you're married?

Whoknows at 12.49 has it spot on, and I totally agree. Men have one title, women have 3.

There are times when using a title is appropriate to address someone or write to them. With men it's simple, it's always "hello Mr Seth", or "Dear Mr Seth". With women there isn't a universal title.

It's not about marital status at all - that isn't relevant at all in a "hello Mrs/Miss/Ms" type situation. It's the existence of 3 options that make it necessary to find out what the female uses.

If there was a universal female title it would eliminate people judging women for their marital status from JUST the title as they would have no way of knowing.

MrsFlannel: In some countries, unfortunately, you do.

Xiaozhu which countries?

Speaking just for myself, MrsFlannel, no it's a combination of deciding to change my name when I got married because:

• I wanted to lose my maiden name (loathe that term!)
• I hate Ms (irrational, but irretrievable)
• for particular reasons, it meant a lot to DH that I did change my name

Then having decided that I wanted to be Mrs Closer, I'd prefer it if people get my name right, the same way that if my name was Sarah but everyone kept calling me Samantha I would correct them

Given how many women clutch being allowed to be called Mrs to their bosom and declare it's because they're proud to be married, I'd say the UK is certainly one for some people.

I agree ofelia. In the us ms is the default and no one is bothered by it. Clearly not the case in the uk, where it has negative connotations.

In China, where my husband is from, for example. Although Chinese women don't change their surnames when they marry (my PIL were a bit baffled when I took my DH's name!), they are traditionally referred to as 'wife of' husband rather than their unmarried names.

Married women garner more respect than unmarried women in China because it is assumed that if you are unmarried over a certain age there must be something wrong with you.

Clearly this is a massive generalization and attitudes vary hugely depending on location, age group etc. But I think it illustrates the point.

It's not just the fact that women have to specify or correct their titles in a way that men don't, it's also the fact that when dealing with a woman (whether you are male or female) you have that added bother of "have I got the right title, better check, she hasn't specified, hope she isn't offended if I put Ms". Which may lead to feelings of "it's more of a bother dealing with a woman than it is a man". Brenda in this example is doing the right thing to save people that trouble, but wouldn't it be nice if the problem didn't exist in the first place?

As for never being called by titles, I am, regularly (not at work). Teachers/childcarers, other professionals involved with my DCs, people you phone up about just about anything, people in shops, they aren't going away in my world, though I wouldn't mind if they did.

Exactly! Brenda was making it clear which to use. It was helpful.

I have just had an email from a colleague asking what title I'd like to use on quite a formal letter that is about to go out to which I am a signatory. Replies would come back to Ms / Miss / Mrs / Dr / Prof Confused NOT to Overtired. Therefore it's a courtesy to make it clear in these circumstances.

I've worked here for almost two years and it's the first time it's needed to be asked, so definitely a dying tradition. Most of my incoming correspondence - hard or soft copy - is now addressed Overtired.

On that basis, I've no issue asking for Mrs to go after my name in brackets as, on the rare occasion I get mail of that level of formality, I'd prefer it to be addressed in a style that is accurate and meets my preferences.

No MrsFlannel it simply didn't occur to me not to change my name to dh's when we got married, I did.

And as Closer said, having changed my name I'd prefer it if people got my name correct.

And I wonder how many women have married but just kept their maiden name because their husbands surname was hard to spell/pronounce/possibly rhyme with their first name or they just didn't bloody like it!

I like DH's surname a lot more than mine, it goes really well with my first name but I still kept my own, never even considered changing.

My mum gets super mad if anyone calls her by her first name and they dont know her. If she rings the insurance company or whatever and they say "Jane (nc) can you just confirm you date of birth" she will get all snotty and say "I am MRS SMITH to you, you dont know me and certainly not well enough to use my first name!" She told me I would lose my job if I kept doing that to people at work!

I could understand my grandma being like that, everyone was Mr or Mrs unless family or a very very close friend, but my mum is only in her early 60's!

I don't really care whether people use a title or not when referring to me or which one they use. In my job I am usually referred to by my professional title and my surname but outside of work I often get referred to as 'Miss' because I look quite young. I do insist that my DCs call adults, i.e friend's parents Mr X or Mrs X until invited to do otherwise simply because I believe it's polite. What I really, really object to is being addressed as Mrs John HippyChick! I took my husband's surname when I got married, I didn't take his first name (which isn't actually John btw)!

I think I've only seen this once at work and it was to show the person was female: Sam Jones (Mrs).
Don't see a problem with it - since the three forms of title are in wide usage for women it makes sense to let the reader know which one you prefer. Then if they reply they don't even have to think about which one to use.

And that is all there is to it Legsofsteel simples

Mrs Brenda Jones has gone about her day unaware of the kerfuffle she has caused in a small corner of the Internet simply by using the title she prefers

I can't wade through six pages of posts but I agree with you OP.

Ms Jones for everybody.

My pet hate is when women say "but I love being a Mrs". Only ever read it on the internet mind you. Never actually spoken to somebody who's admitted to "loving being mrs chattel" in real life. I'd be so embarrassed to say "I love being mrs!!". Some people are because they don't question it. But to have a bit of a think about it and decide you love it. words fail me.

Well OurGlass and Closerto, why would an intelligent person, male or female, give up using the name they used all their lives just because they marry someone? It is only an assumed name, after all, the name on your birth cert is your real name unless you change it by deed poll.
Generally, people who change their names on getting married are thick and lacking imagination.

Xia, people who use 'face palm' expressions are generally a bit thick too!

I'd like to do away with titles altogether, apart from earned ones like Dr, Prof etc.

I usually introduce myself to people as Rhinestone Cowgirl, if pushed I'll answer to Ms Cowgirl (hint: this isn't really my name).

The Brenda Jones (Mrs) just seems a bit old-fashioned to me.

I don't care if you care if I care if you don't care.

Finnbarrcar (Mrs)