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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

664 replies

smokepole · 16/03/2015 14:13

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

OP posts:
Original poster
smokepole · 16/03/2015 22:21

Morethan. I watched the 'Northern Soul' film in October , the film was set in Wigan in 1974. The reality is the film could be about today, there has been no improvement in 40 years in the lives of Wigan's people in fact I actually think Wigan, Rochdale, Oldham et, all are poorer now than then.

The film shows kids leaving school and finding employment the next day, it may have been low skilled but at least there was work available. The same kids today do not even have a chance of finding any work whatsoever , and are confined to JSA . How can anybody growing up in such deprived areas where a 'recession' has been going on for 40 years have any interest in education.

OP posts:
RandomNPC · 16/03/2015 22:23

Not all private school children would get into a grammar.

I wouldn't trust some products of the private school system that I've encountered to get into a cupboard, never mind a selective school.

Topseyt · 16/03/2015 22:24

Goldenbeagle, exactly my point. Bright kids don't actually need to be educated in a separate environment.

That is part of the reason I did not put my third daughter in for the 11+.

When my eldest daughter was transferring to secondary school the local catchment area comprehensive had been going through a lot of problems, so she tried the 11+ and got in.

My middle daughter isn't academic really, so better suited to the local school, which was by then improving under a new head teacher.

My youngest (3rd) daughter is very academic, much like the eldest. We did not put her in for the 11+ because by then we were happy with the way things were going at our local school, which is much nearer than the grammar. She is thriving there now, and says she is really looking forward to starting her GCSE courses next year.

So, I have done it both ways for varying reasons. Both have been fine, both eldest and youngest thrived in their different schools. Both systems have pluses and minuses like everything else.

Floisme · 16/03/2015 22:34

Smoke pole, Flo and Topseyt, why do bright childen need to be educated in a separate school?

Sorry Goldenbeagle - you asked that a couple of pages back. Anyway that's not what I want. I have family living in a grammar school area and I've seen what they do. If they tried to re-introduce grammars where we live, we would move away.

marrybanilov · 16/03/2015 22:43

Bright children need to be educated in a separate school to give them the most academically conducive environment. Away from children who place no value on education. Away from children who are bored by lessons so try to cause mischief in class as a way of entertaining themselves. Away from children who think nothing of throwing a chair across a classroom or yelling and swearing at a teacher. Away from children who will singlemindedly target and torment any child who comes top in a test or who gets praised for their work by a teacher.

Plenty of state schools where this happens daily.

Hakluyt · 16/03/2015 22:49

Everyone who got all upset about a few disobliging things being said about kids at private school?

I suggest you read mannybarilov's post passim.........

Floisme · 16/03/2015 22:53

Shock This thread illustrates why we would move away if they tried to bring in grammars where we live. They seem to tip otherwise reasonable people right over the edge!

hmc · 16/03/2015 22:53

Ds has been bored and under stimulated in an Ofsted outstanding primary school - and that's despite some streaming and extension activities. I am pretty sure he will benefit from the more academically rigorous environment at grammar and does need to be educated separately

morethanpotatoprints · 16/03/2015 22:54

Smokepole

So true, some parts of Lancashire seem to be going further down, its so awful and depressing. Personally, we are so fortunate to have choices where we are, but our older kids are slowly getting out of the area, now dd too.
We are down sizing next year, Not East Cheshire the land of fur coat and no knickers, definitely closer to Manchester.

marrybanilov · 16/03/2015 23:01

I only speak from my experience and that of friends. Everything I have mentioned above has been witnessed many times in our local state schools.

My friends have older children at DD's grammar. Chairs do not get thrown. Teachers are not yelled at or sworn at. Lessons don't get regularly disrupted or even occasionally disrupted by belligerent pupils. DD has never witnessed anything like this in the classroom and very likely never will.

The grammar isn't perfect. It has its own issues but they are very small compared to the superb education on offer.

Hakluyt · 16/03/2015 23:02

Hmc- seperately- like in the top set of a comprehensive?

Original poster
smokepole · 16/03/2015 23:05

Another thing the furtherest 'North' most of the people from Cheshire East have gone is the Trafford Centre. I know more about Lancashire mill towns then they do. They have either never been to anywhere north of Didsbury or more likely forget to mention they grew up in Rochdale or Hattersley. 'Fur Coat and no Knickers'......

OP posts:
marrybanilov · 16/03/2015 23:07

Top set in a comprehensive does not compare to a top set in a grammar. I am surprised that anyone could think they would compare. Obviously they won't.

Hakluyt · 16/03/2015 23:10

So in the vast majority of LEAs with no grammar schools, where do the kids who would be in a grammar school in a selective LEA go to school?

hmc · 16/03/2015 23:12

Well that's my point Hakulyt - he has been top set in an Ofsted outstanding primary school but it hasn't been sufficient. Some comps are extremely good, others aren't. I can only judge it on my local situation - and the grammar is best fit. Top set at the local secondary school isn't

morethanpotatoprints · 16/03/2015 23:22

Smoke

Round here that area is referred to as The Surrey of the North not that I know what Surrey is like. Do they wear knickers or do they have fur coats Grin

Hakluyt · 16/03/2015 23:25

" Top set at the local secondary school isn't"

Well, it wouldn't be in a grammar school area, what with it not being a comprehensive...........

hmc · 16/03/2015 23:43

Except that where we live (right on the periphery of grammar catchment) we are equidistant (around 7 miles) from the secondary school I am thinking of but also around 7 miles from a comprehensive in the local market town (this school is 17 miles from the grammar and in a different county) - ds would be able to attend that comprehensive, but again it doe
sn't compare with the grammar. It just doesn't

TheFairyCaravan · 16/03/2015 23:43

I love this urban myth that bright children are held back at comprehensive schools.

My 2 DSes went to a comprehensive, DS2 is in the last few months of Yr13. They never saw a chair being thrown, they never heard a teacher being sworn at, nor did teachers get yelled at. They weren't bullied or mocked for being bright, they didn't get their bags stolen or anything else that posters keep saying happen in comprehensives.

What they did get was an excellent education. They both left with all As and As at GCSE, DS1 got 100% in 3 of his and was the top performing boy in his year. DS2 is predicted AAB this Summer in his A2 exams, last Summer he dropped 1 mark in one of his AS exams.

They have never been bored at school, the teachers have been excelent and we couldn't have asked for more.

morethanpotatoprints · 16/03/2015 23:46

marrybanilov

do you know how hard your nn is for a dyslexic? Grin

I don't blame you for using the grammar one bit and so wish we had one here.
Likewise, I know it doesn't make it fair for all, but for those who are bright and would otherwise not reach their potential they are needed.
It breaks my heart to see children not given the chance they need.
Obviously, state schools need to improve for all, and children shouldn't be throwing chairs and tables, but helped, encouraged and supported.

morethanpotatoprints · 16/03/2015 23:49

Thefairy

I am really pleased the system has worked for your dc, but that is not everybodies experience.
I know there are some great state schools in many areas, we just don't have them here.

ouryve · 16/03/2015 23:57

I own my discomfort at describing children as "thick" but lose it one they're a middle aged prime minister or supposedly ex education secretary. Some of those people never really learnt much more than what was drummed into them via their expensive educations.

ouryve · 17/03/2015 00:02

Marrybanilov what about the bright children who are also chair chuckers? Or does that idea make you clutch your pearls so tight you end up constipated?

HermiaDream · 17/03/2015 00:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

caroldecker · 17/03/2015 00:53

As my link above showed, selective areas have better results than fully comprehensive areas, which are worse than average.