To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

Grammar schools are selective though, being able to afford private education doesn't mean your child would be clever enough to get in.

It would depend on whether the rich were able to manipulate the system with tutors and the like to ensure their children got places imo.

exactly.

Lots of the private schoolers would not actually, necessarily get into a grammar.

Also, lots of people choose private because of flexible hours, games and sports, the "right peer group" and the status!

I haven't noticed them disappearing in Kent. And there's more than one independent school locally that offers a 'non-selective' education, aimed at middle class children 'deemed suitable for a high school education'.

What were the figures in the 1950s?

Surely a lot of private school parents just don't want to deal with the government, much for the same reason that they'd go privately to see a doctor rather than deal with the NHS.

No, plenty of private schools take anyone who can afford to go, they don't need to be academically selective look at the royal family

I think there will always be a demand for private schools, perhap if there were more grammar schools nationwide, not just in a few areas there would be fewer parents paying for private education.
However, taking into consideration the selection process there would be more state school educated dc applying too if they were more widespread.

LOL

not all kids at a private school are clever!! think Rich and thick for a lot of them

Kids at a state grammar say many private ones flounder madly in Y7

When I rule the world only state educated kids will be eligible for state secondary schools

Plenty of independent schools are non-selective. And your OP implies that grammar schools are just private schools without the fees, which they are not.

What is it that you are hoping to achieve with an increase in grammar schools? More kids written off to secondary moderns at the age of 11? More kids deemed academic 'failures'? More sharp-elbowed parents pushing up house prices in grammar areas?

YABU. Because not all private school kids would get into grammar. And lots of people send their kids to private primary schools.

I am in Kent and the independent sector is thriving - particularly at prep level because parents buy into the "guaranteed success at 11+" marketing, still tutor their children and yet many don't pass or get into the superselective grammars. So, even with the abundance of grammars where we are, there is still strong demand for a private education.....you can prepare children for a test, but they still have to be bright enough to pass it. And if you can't get into a grammar or superselective grammar, a private education, particularly at secondary will give you advantages that perhaps the "bog standard comp" down the road won't be able to.

This whole post is bizarre.

Are you implying that getting rid of private schools is a good thing?

And that more grammar schools would be a good thing?

Both highly contentious positions, but not related at all that I can see.

Sorry don't agree with rich & thick. Just no choice of decent state schools in our area so we decided to send ours to a private school. We are working class, probably 1 holiday every 2 years, run a cheap car, but both my husband and I work bloody hard to earn the money the ensure our kids are educated. Probably more poor & thick then! O well!

Do grammars offer class sizes below 16?
Are they exempt from national curriculum and says?
Do they offer a multitude of in-school individual music lessons?
Do they do games or PE 5 days a week?
And more importantly, will that have boaters? (smirk)

I do find it so odd that the answer to problems with the provision of education in the UK is, to some people, to get rid of private schools.

It's perfectly reasonable to object to private education on principle, but ludicrous to suggest that closing private schools would make a blind bit of difference to state provision.

I cannot understand how there are still grammar schools in some areas. Where I live they stopped in 1974 - how can they still be around in pockets of the country 40 years later? I missed out going to one by a year! I would love for there to be a grammar school here.

Why is it acceptable to describe children on here as 'thick'? Simply because their parents are paying for their education. Would it be ok to describe those in the lower sets at the comprehensive as thick? I don't think so, yet somehow it's ok to snort and sneer and say how so many if them are thick. Just bloody remember that you are talking about children.
The independent sector is full of parents who pay for all sorts of reasons; some even to avoid the grammar system. Op you may be surprised how few are paying simply because they want a grammar style education.
I have no axe to grind as my eldest 2 attend an academically selective independent school and one is considered gifted. We turned down a place at an even more academically driven school for her in favour of the one they attend.

The pupils at ds's independent school all have sen including learning difficulties. None of them would be going to grammar school.

OP has a bee in her bonnet about not being sent to a grammar school and having to go to an ordinary comp iirc.

meh - some kids are thick. C'est la vie.
Doesn't bother me at all

Grammar = selective. Private school is not necessarily.

My eldest daughter went to a state grammar school. One thing that did become clear to me was that a sizeable minority (perhaps over a third) of the students had come from private sector primary schools, (or are they called prep schools?) which seemed to have drilled them for the 11+.

Perhaps it would be the other way around?? I mean, if there were convenient grammar schools for more areas then maybe state primary schools would better prepare their most able students for the 11+, so there might be fewer children in private sector primary education who then transfer to state secondary schools if they gain a grammar school place.

For the record, my daughter went to a state primary school. She had a tutor for a few weeks only to help with maths, but nothing more.

This is not me making any state v private school judgments. Just an observation and nothing more.

state primaries do prepare kids for the 11plus in some instances.

if they dont then most state grammars are almost forced to offer 11plus practice sessions ( certainly in the last three years)

Topseyt, in Kent state primary schools are not allowed to prepare children for the Kent Test. It's a blanket prohibition. In theory, if a state school is caught doing any 11+ preparation the results could be invalidated.