So Nigel finally shows his true colours

[muminhants]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31846453

axing equality laws

Listening to Farage is like being stuck in the back of a cab when the driver starts the conversation.... 'I tell you what's wrong with this country....' If he comes out with this kind of ignorant contradictory stuff in public, can you imagine what he's saying in private?

Re Farage/UKIP .... it is interesting though that as he searches for political sounbites that resonate, the policies/points he makes sound less appealing, even credible.

The current axing of equality laws for one, the recent one on the possibility of an Australian Points immigration system while still IN the EU as another, as the majority of of our EU partners have no interest in any Treaty change that would allow it.

OK in an EU MEP election (maybe), but within a General Election when its all the domestic 'stuff' that really matters, IMO the electorate will be looking for something deeper than immigrant bashing.

If the strategy is limit the fruitcakes appearances and let their 'special one' do the electioneering, to-date, I'd suggest it isn't working as expected... a break up within the polls.

Cogito look up what the founder of UKIP has to say about him.

I'll say it again. Yes it's hard to get a visa for Canada, USA etc. It's also hard to get a visa for the uk if you are non eu.

Yes indeed.

The funny thing is, UKIP types would have us simultaneously believe that a) it's really easy for anyone and everyone to move to the UK if they so choose, and b) that there are millions, possibly billions, of people wanting to move here. If it is so easy, why aren't they all here now?!

It's a bit like the arguments that immigrants want to come over here and steal our jobs while also laying about and scrounging off our benefits system.

Or the idea that you might need to remove race discrimination legislation in order to allow colour-blind employers recruit more British staff.

It seems that logic and rational thought are not among the strengths of your average UKIP voter.

It seems that logic and rational thought are not among the strengths of your average UKIP voter.

As I become aged, and dole out unequal laws unto a savage race, I am starting to realise that any subsection of society is a true microcosm of that society. To the extent that I am starting to consider it an immutable truth.

Stupid in society ? There will be stupid in UKIP. (And Conservative, and Labour, and Green etc).

Racist in society ? There will be racist in UKIP. (And Conservative, and Labour, and Green etc).

And so on.

I'm wondering if this is a corollary to Will Selfs "Quantity Theory of Insanity" ? LurkingHusbands "Equal Distribution of Attributes Theory" ?

(An interesting hypothesis to test my theory is to ask are there any idiots in MENSA ).

"And when asked if he would retain a ban on discrimination on the grounds of race or colour, he said: "No... because we take the view, we are colour-blind. We as a party are colour-blind."

How can he even think of saying that when so recently one of his party councillors said unabashed that she didn't like "negro faces." - she has left the party but that still completely destroys his claim.

So why is it easy for a foreign student to learn English, but so much more difficult the other way round?

I will add to Lurking's post.

For a vast number of people around the globe, speaking English is an academic and economic necessity. You may not be able to get a place at university without fluency in English; you may not be able to get a job in your civil service without fluency in English.

I worked in a country where if a student did not pass the FCE, their employment opportunities were pretty much limited to agricultural work -- no matter how intelligent or able they were in other subjects. It was the passport, so there was a lot of motivation to learn the language.

Now, because English is the language to learn for so many people around the world, there is an enormous market for English language learning materials and resources, which means the business opportunities in ESOL materials are extraordinary, which means huge amounts of English language learning materials are produced and sold.

This is important because the wealth of educational material produced to guide learners from A1 to C2 level makes it easier to learn and practice the language. There are multitude of text books, online resources, dictionaries, CD-Roms, colouring books, software programmes, flashcard packages ... all catering for the market.

And this works hand in hand with global access to English language media products: music, films, TV series, books, cartoons, websites, even the English language commentary on premier league matches. And because the English language media industry is so huge, these products are fairly cheap.

The support these media products gives an ESOL learner is incredible. English becomes an environmental feature that can give a learner near constant exposure. You don't want to study English grammar today? Just turn on the radio and, ten to one, it will be a song by Beyonce. You and your teen friends want to go out? Go see the latest Bond film at the local cinema; it will probably be subtitled in your language, but that still means you are constantly hearing English for those 90 minutes.

By contrast, this wealth of material and exposure simply doesn't exist for an English speaker wishing to learn another language, and that is what makes it so hard.

It seems that logic and rational thought are not among the strengths of your average UKIP voter
It's sad to think that there are so many terminally stupid people around. Hopefully many of them will come to realise that you can't build a happy country based on hatred.

By contrast, this wealth of material and exposure simply doesn't exist for an English speaker wishing to learn another language, and that is what makes it so hard.

While I agree that the EFL industry is prolific, it really isn't hard for English speakers to learn other languages if they choose to invest the time and effort. It's an issue of motivation more than one of opportunity.

The U-Kippers see the 2000's immigration 'problem', where somehow he found 3-4 million new jobs (based on immigrantion figures) , but blame immigrants themselves for all the strains on social services etc that brought, rather than the domestic policies/workforce that for some reason weren't thought of as 'qualified' enough to do all those jobs - from doctors & nurses, to plumbers, to fruit pickers.

Up until the late 2000's, where was UKIP, but they then found their 'niche' as their founder Prof Alan Skelton(?) or something like that, has since lamented.

Isitmebut - Immigration is not an esoteric fringe issue. When immigration was a couple of tens of thousands every year it was largely an irrelevance. When it is 500-600k a year, as it is now, it becomes a foundational issue upon which all other issues rest - housing, schools, NHS, transport etc etc.

Here are the immigration stats from ONS since the last election:

2010 - 600k
2011 - 589k
2012 - 500k
2013 - 526k
2014 - 624k

That's 2.8 MILLION people who have arrived since 2010. This is not insignificant.

With the unrest in the world, the difficulties of the Eurozone and the fact that the UK has remained a desirable place to live because of our relatively strong economy these numbers will not slow down. So by the next election we could have another 3 MILLION people arrive.

This level of immigration is completely unsustainable in physical terms - where do these people live? Where do their children go to school? How does the NHS look after them? What jobs will they do? It is also unsustainable culturally. How do such vast numbers of people assimilate and adopt British ways of life?

Immigration is not a side issue, it is in fact the only issue of any longterm importance to our health and happiness as a nation.

Yes the language learning is a real issue - and it becomes on at EU level because people from the UK simply don't have good enough language skills, only the ones who have grown up bilingually or lived in another country for a decent period of time - and then because you don't have the British people working in the EU, you don't have the engagement and influence with the EU. I studied German at degree level and did a Masters degree in law in Germany, through the medium of German. Yet I am not sure that I would be good enough for a job in the EU (and for some jobs you need three EU languages - my French and Italian are too rubbish - I recently startled learning Dutch too but again it's far too rubbish).

I am pro-EU although I can see there are problems with it as well. But we really do need to do something about learning languages in this country. Marrying a foreigner and bringing your kids up bilingually is one solution. Sending your kids to a new bilingual free school (eg the new German Judith Kerr one) is another. Or living overseas for a period.

I would also suggest that the French and German schools in London are very exclusionary in their policies. If someone comes to the UK and does not have mother tongue English, they receive help to acquire it - how many ESOL children do we have in our schools? Yet both the French and German schools exclude those who don't already have a good knowledge of French and/or German. That is simply wrong and they should be required to offer lessons to children whose parents would like them to have a foreign language education. The British government could actually subsidise this, it is in the country's economic interest - after all they are paying for the free schools.

I am not pro-limitless immigration - we are a small island and we don't have the space. I live in an area where a new 5000 house "new village" has been mooted. Population growth is a big problem - the birth rate is too high as well. But UKIP are not remotely trying to deal with the problem in a rational way.

I do think that he's a nasty racist..... but that's not to say there isn't a discussion to be had on how flooding the employment market with cheap workers who're desperate for any job affects the indigenous population.

UK companies won't pay living wages to UK citizens if they can get the poor Poles to work 100 hours for 50 pence a week instead, and conversely some Brits won't work for NMW when they can get the same or more on benefits.

It is a problem, and I don't think it's going to get any better any time soon unless someone tackles it.

Lurking, I concede that there are probably people in all parties who are stupid and/or racist. UKIP certainly does not have a monopoly on bigotry and irrational prejudice. However, I think it is the only one of the mainstream parties that seems to be founded primarily on bigotry and irrational prejudice, and that is a significant difference in my view.

As for whether there are any idiots in MENSA, I'm inclined to think that anyone who joins MENSA is probably a bit of an idiot.

Hmm... when IS discrimination something we don't need to worry about?

When CAN we lift the pedal off the gas on discrimination against women? against colour, religion? sexuality?

Only when EVERYONE on this planet realises that we are all equal and the matter is no longer up for discussion.

Nigel is a vile slug of a man. I hope to god he is not elected. I am not sure I could live in a country that he is head of.

it really isn't hard for English speakers to learn other languages if they choose to invest the time and effort. It's an issue of motivation more than one of opportunity

Yes ... and no. The former would breed the latter.

The bottom line is you have a generation that begat a generation that begat a generation dedicated to not learning languages. What motivated the children of the Club 18-30ers I met in the 1980s, whose idea of speaking any foreign language was TO SPEAK ENGLISH LOUDER ? I doubt they were motivated to learn Spanish.

If I had my way, I would start teaching French (or maybe Spanish) at age 5.

In the late 80s, or early 90s, there was a pilot - I think in Berkshire (Reading). Pupils at primary school were hothoused into 3 or 4 foreign languages (one of which was Russian). Within weeks, they had started conversing in the playground in other tongues. The news story I read this in was a story because the parents had stopped the pilot, as they didn't like the kids "speaking foreign" to each other. (If I had been a parent then, I would have got my DC to teach me. Nothing to cement learning than having to teach.).

There's a concrete demonstration of this ... where I live, the nearest regular access to non-English (non Bollywood) films is ... London. 120 miles away. It's probably the single thing I miss most about London. Our local multiplex (one of the most up to date in the country) has 13 (yes thirteen screens) but never once shown a foreign language film. If they did, I suspect I might have the place to myself.

Yes scatter of light, but

2013 - 320k emigrated
2011 - 349K emigrated

Unless you add those who left to those who arrive you get a skewed picture of net migration. Many of those who immigrate to the UK only stay a few years then go back home again.

Actually net long term migration has been falling in the last 3 years

slug

Yes scatter of light, but

2013 - 320k emigrated
2011 - 349K emigrated

Of course the problem with those figures is they could be interpreted as native Britons leaving. I.e. amplifying the cultural effects of non-Britons moving here

slug - net migration is a sleight of hand. It assumes all migrants are of equal cost/benefit. But of course this is patently not the reality.

Here's a ludicrous illustration for you:

2016:
40 million Brits leave
30 million Germans arrive

Net Migration = -10 million.

In this year, in fact, we would be told that we'd had no "migration" at all. What a positive story. Net migration finally in the negative figures! But yet overnight the majority of people in the UK would have become German. Of course we would now be wildly organised and industrious. But would we still be British?

Some will argue that the cultural identities of the people living within the borders of the UK are irrelevant. But do they really believe that's true? I'm not so sure.

But yet overnight the majority of people in the UK would have become German.

Somewhere in that, there is a joke about the Royal Family just waiting to be discovered (thinks of Blackadder).

He's not a stupid man - not in every way, at least - but he is trying to appeal to the stupid thickos in the UK. And it's working.

they are even so stupid that they can't see they are being fucking patronised and sold down the river by the guy they think is their mate.

Britain is filled with really, really stupid people. I'm not sure what anyone can do about it.

So depressing. I wish he would fuck off like some sort of pied piper taking his millions of willing ratty little followers with him into a huge mountain where they would find out exactly what life would be like under his command. They wouldn't like it much - a mountain full of stupid British people just like them.

Wanker.

scatter
People leave, too. Sometimes more than come in.

in and out

they are even so stupid that they can't see they are being fucking patronised and sold down the river by the guy they think is their mate.

Well we've been fucking patronised and sold down the river by the Conservatives and Labour for years and years. Many people think this and will vote for UKIP as a protest vote.

Britain is filled with really, really stupid people. I'm not sure what anyone can do about it.

Well it's not peculiarly British . It's the price we pay for universal suffrage.

I hesitate to say "British", as I don't feel qualified to comment on Welsh, Irish, or Scots sensibilities. However, certainly the English have a deep seated mistrust of anything foreign. I know very well, having grown up with it. It starts with the ostentatious mispronunciation of my [sur]name, leads on to questions about my heritage and place of birth (London) and almost invariably ended with quite a nasty comment on my the place of my non-English parents birth. (All good training to grow a thick skin).

The irony of our favourite dish being curry, and Nigel Farage sipping from a pint of India Pale Ale will be lost on many .

Some will argue that the cultural identities of the people living within the borders of the UK are irrelevant. But do they really believe that's true? I'm not so sure.

I positively welcome the cultural diversity that immigration brings, and would not choose to live in a monocultural area. We aren't in a situation yet where vast numbers of British people are leaving. Though many of us will be on the first plane out if UKIP get elected.

A very significant proportion of migrants coming into the UK each year are students. International education is a hugely important export for the UK; these students bring in a lot of cash to local economies and create a lot of jobs, while taking comparatively little out of the system. Very few of these students are now able to stay on after graduating, so many of those leaving the country are likely to be students who have completed their studies.