So Nigel finally shows his true colours

[muminhants]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31846453

axing equality laws

Oh, and scatter, there are lots of places I'd like to go to for a better life - New York, Capetown, Auckland... It doesn't mean I'm going to go and actually do it.

It's not just the low level jobs that we need immigrants for, as a country we are short every year of between 30,000 and 50,000 engineers, if we don't find these the country will grind to a halt, we won't be able to progress with any of our industries. The majority of immigrants to this country provide a very valid and much needed contribution to society, both with skills and taxes.

When asked a direct question on whether we should have a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour, he said no.

How do people conclude from this that he was talking about nationality?

The man is obviously racist, and I have never been in any doubt of that. However, I don't think the open expression of his racism will deter the many apologists who defend him. People will hear what they want to hear.

Ouryve - The poll had respondents from 189 countries.If you're actually interested you can read the survey methodology here:

www.bcgperspectives.com/content/articles/human_resources_leadership_decoding_global_talent/?chapter=7#chapter7

It's interesting of course that your impulse is to not believe that the UK tops the world's most desirable places to live. Being fortunate as we are to enjoy relative peace and prosperity we take it for granted. Our media and the general tenor of political debate also serves to make us feel that the UK must be a really awful place to live. But in a global comparison this is just not true.

A large proportion of the world's inhabitants would have a better life if they lived here. What's more, with the internet, global media and cheap travel, a great many of them also know this.

So given that 10s of millions of people around the world would come here in a shot if they were able, what should we do about that?

Most of the jobs immigrants do, they do because there are not enough British/English applying.
Glaring example being seasonal agricultural work - once done by British working class women and children as a way to get a paid country holiday.
Now, if they didn't employ immigrants to pick crops you wouldn't have any in the supermarkets.

Taxi drivers in London at least - used to be working class male, now predominantly foreign or first generation immigrant - they aren't taking jobs away from the British - they are filling a gap in the market.

Lorry drivers, bus drivers - all low status jobs once done by "British Working Class" that are now desperately under subscribed and really need people to apply for.

If it's true that such a large proportion of the global population are eager to live in the UK, does that not suggest that our existing immigration policies are rather more effective than the UKIP apologists would have us believe? Surely, if it's so easy to come here, they would all be here already, wouldn't they?

Hummm ... Farage is attempting to solve a problem that actually requires a set of solutions in a radically different arena.

The issue with EU migration and British employment is that EU policy has created an EU-wide labour market and gives every EU citizen "equality of access" to that labour market.

The problem is that the EU's notion of "equality of access" is highly dependent on other factors, namely education and other life skills and conditions, so while it gives "equality of access", it does not give "equality of opportunity".

And that is where the political dynamite is.

So far the issue has only affected workers in lower-paid industries but, at some point, a lot of middle-class and even upper-middle-class British families are going to figure out that their children cannot compete with trilingual, highly-educated young people from other parts of Europe -- because our education system still operates as though we are not in an EU-wide labour market.

If Britain wants to stay in the EU, and doesn't want to suffer an enormous political backlash because of the lack of equality of opportunity for many Brits within the EU labour market, Britain will have to refocus its education system. For a start, it will have to ensure pupils leave school fluent in at least one other European language -- probably two.

And I don't mean a GCSE in the language, I mean fluent, so these kids can compete for jobs with European young people who can speak four different languages.

I know because I have taught these European children. Some of my old students are now working in other countries and have been able to take advantage of job opportunities that very few British children could -- because they are fluent in German, French, English as well as their own mother tongue and that is on and above their industry-related knowledge, skills and experience.

These are the young people that can work for Interpol, transnational organisations, the EU itself, the UN, and stand a higher chance of success within key European industries. These are the kids that get first dibs on the European summer tourism jobs ... because they can converse with all the customers. These are the young people that have added skills to offer employers. Why employ a monolingual British PA when you can employ a trilingual Greek PA who can converse with some of your clients in their own language?

This is the reality. And Britain is not facing it.

Language learning for native English speakers, resident in UK is not at all clear cut. So I'm getting my kids to focus on maths!

Maybe study STEM, learn Spanish on the side and try to move to the USA? I see my kids future outside EU at the moment.

10 good reasons not to vote UKIP

scatter

"The survey, provided in a total of 44 languages, was posted online and distributed by e-mail"
"Most survey respondents have at least a bachelor’s degree"

So hardly representative of the entire world population, then, which makes your extrapolation rather inaccurate, to say the least.

And, I can't find where it says whether the questions asked were open ended or multi-choice. Or whether the respondents volunteered independently "I want to work in London" or were asked "if you were to work in a foreign city, which one would you prefer?" which would yield a response, even from people who had no intention of ever working abroad.

worksallhours

Britain will have to refocus its education system. For a start, it will have to ensure pupils leave school fluent in at least one other European language -- probably two.

Good luck with that. It's been obvious for 40 years, so I don't know what will magically change overnight .

Unfortunately there's a massive asymmetry between English and other languages which make learning a foreign language in the UK very difficult. Starting with the fact that the single language other nationalities will learn - almost without exception - is English. The second they do this, the pressure on a native English speaker to learn is reduced.

On occasions I have tried to expand my grasp of a language, it's hard work, as the native speaker would much rather practise their English, than waste time speaking their own tongue.

Then you have the annoyance of geography. We live on an island. We have no easy access to other languages. Unlike family friends from Turin, who are pretty much fluent in German and French as well as their native Italian. It's no coincidence that the level of English spoken in Italy decreases as you move away from the border (although there are other factors at work).

My views are probably a bit skewed. One of my parents isn't at all English, and while I couldn't direct a light opera, I can hold my own in another tongue. Plus I grew up in a very progressive part of the country which mandated French from ages 9-14, plus another language ages 12-14 (I did Latin ). So all kids in that authority had no choice. I only became aware how unique I was when I visited UK friends who were studying French degrees in Paris. They couldn't understand how despite my not having "studied" French (because I had no choice), I was able to read and converse (my ear can be a bit whack at times - I prefer to read directions ). I then learned that for some people, the first exposure they had to French was aged 16 - when embarking on A levels.

Anyway, a very long way of agreeing with you, but not seeing it happening .

As much as i dislike the UKIP what they are suggesting isn't that much different from what we have here in Jersey already.

Over here there are many jobs, well paid jobs that you are not allowed to apply for, (well you can apply but you will be declined) if you do not have 5 years residency. So you have to have been on the island for 5 years continuously paying contributions to apply for these jobs. There is no social housing unless you have residency status which takes 12 years at the moment.

Separate tiers of housing, Resident and non resident, non resident being more expensive.

Unfortunately there's a massive asymmetry between English and other languages which make learning a foreign language in the UK very difficult

So why is it easy for a foreign student to learn English, but so much more difficult the other way round?(genuine question)

oneday British people were born here because of nothing more than luck . That does not make you more deserving of being treated better. You are not better than people because you were fortunate enough to be born here. It's moronic to think we are more entitled to live and work here because of an accident of birth.

This is the stupidest argument I have ever read on MN.

If Britain is "better" it's because of the people who have lived, worked, paid taxes, raised children in Britain for generations and fought for the freedoms we now take for granted. It is nothing to do with "luck". Immigrants aren't attracted to Britain by the climate - they come because of the society that has been built here.

YANBU. Farage is the most dangerous man in the country. His evil racism and simplistic, dog-whistle rubbish dressed up as patriotism gives others (too stupid to realise they are being manipulated) permission to ramp up discrimination and hatred.

Dangerous

IreneA78

So why is it easy for a foreign student to learn English, but so much more difficult the other way round?(genuine question)

Because English is the only language any foreign student need learn. Indian ? Learn English. Belgian ? Learn English. Nigerian ? Learn English.

Now reverse that ...

English ? Learn Hindi (or Urdu, Bengali, Punjabi, Peshwari, Gujarati)
English ? Learn French (or Dutch, or Flemish)
English ? Learn Yoruba (or Hausa, or Igbo)

How many classrooms is that ? Quite aside from the teachers needed.

Now my view is that this situation makes it difficult for us to learn foreign languages. However, "difficult" takes many forms, and should never be used as a synonym for "not worth it" (I'm sure it was difficult to abolish slavery). However because we are ensconced in our own little island, we really do have an island mentality. (I mentioned upthread I'm only half English, and I can see it so clearly). And one of the ways that manifests itself is our attitude to learning languages. We just don't do it. In fact for some, it's a badge of pride .

Here's another example. Did you see the new Greek chancellor recently, on his whistle stop tour of Europe. Where he was interviewed by the BBC in English.

When do you think Gideon will pop over to Hellenic TV and give an interview in Greek ????

FWIW, despite what you think of his politics, one of Boris Johnsons virtues is his willingness not to be English. In "Dreams of Rome", he was happy to converse in French and Italian, and we had to have the subtitles. If I recall he didn't try and speak German, but he already had more language skills that most - if not all - of the present cabinet and shadow cabinet (Nick Clegg excepted).

Now I don't know about you, but I cringe when I see UK politicians being interviewed by foreign media in English - it's a drip drip reinforcement of the prejudices the rest of the world has.

The only consolation in all this, is the one nation on earth worse at foreign languages than the UK, is the US. Although the influx of bilingual Mexicans is starting to erode that. True most native born US citizens still defiantly remain monolingual. But they have to face up to the fact that there's a growing swath of people who have no problem with two languages. And if you have no problem with two, you have less with three.

ourvye - I think you're rather defeating yourself with this line of attack.

You're right that the survey was of professional people, many with degrees and often from already prosperous nations (much lower responses from Africa for instance).

So if the survey had included poverty stricken peoples from Africa and the Indian sub-Continent for example how much higher would the percentage be of people who would have a better life in the UK?

The fact is that the UK is in one of the Top 10, if not Top 3, destinations that people around the world would like to head to if only they had the ability. In any discussion about border control we should realise that we are in a particularly desired country and as a consequence our border policies should be amongst the toughest in the world.

YANBU, odious man, and yes all the isms will creep back once he dumps "equality"

Re UK children learning other languages.

At the very time we were meant to embrace one of the EU's core policies, the freedom to cross borders and work, our schools and politicians were more worried about school performance tables and ever increasing grades, therefore many schools either dropped or de-emphasised the teaching of foreign languages, in favour of 'soft' subjects.

If you look at the up trending 16-24 year old unemployment levels from around 550,000 in 2004, to over 700,000 before the financial crash (rising to under 1 million by 2010), we have to wonder if they were being educated FOR work, whether here competing with EU citizens, or having the basic tools heading the other way for work.

I have no idea if the Coalition re-emphasised languages, I hope they did, but our language education is a global embarrassment, and hardly practical in an increasingly globalised workplace.

This odious man is talking about getting rid of all equalities legislation, which wouldn't mean British jobs for British workers, rather getting women and those with disabilities out of the workforce. If women's maternity rights are undermined and women of childbearing age can be discriminated against, we're going to need all the non-nationals we can get our hands on.

We in the UK have never had a chance to vote on whether we wanted to be ruled by the EU.

Yes we did, in 1975. And the free movement of workers within the EU and before it the EEC was included in the original Treaty of Rome in 1957, so you can't say they sneaked that one under the wire.

I have no idea if the Coalition re-emphasised languages, I hope they did, but our language education is a global embarrassment, and hardly practical in an increasingly globalised workplace.

I think state language provision is dire. However private schools ....

I'll say it again. Yes it's hard to get a visa for Canada, USA etc. It's also hard to get a visa for the uk if you are non eu. I know a few Indian doctors who struggle to get work as due to their visa requirements any appointable candidate from the eu gets the job before them. Hence why lots of Indian doctors are filling the less desirable, non training jobs. But they are filling a gap (and of course leaving a brain drain at home but that's another story).

"I think state language provision is dire. However private schools ...."

Lucky as a nation we don't need brains or languages then, as we spend most of our time trying to bring them down to the State school level, rather than other way around, even when apparently it costs more per pupil for a State education.

I got my three in a good State school, not grammar, that pushed languages hard and they came out each with a good understanding (admittedly not fluent) in 3 languages x 2 children, and 2 languages x 1 - guess which was the boy? lol

Having said that, only one many years later has had a career that required languages, again, guess which one.

Still handy when we all go on holiday as their parents are mono everything.