My friend keeps using this racist term

[Mrsbird311]

A really good friend has on the last couple of occasions used this term to describe someone from Pakistan each time I've said to her that people don't use that term and that it's very offensive but she won't have it, she says its just short for Pakistan, like we would call a Scottish person a scot, I don't see it like this and told her that it is really offensive she then got cross with me and said I'd gone all PC on her, I told her she sounded like an Alf garnet type bigot, I know she isn't a racist person in the slightest but she can't see this is offensive who is BU?

Anyone under the age of 45 has no idea how bloody awful the 70s was.

Agree. I don't know if this is true or not but so far as sexism it seems to me in some ways worse than earlier decades. Sexual liberation resulting in old- fashioned notions of that's not how to behave before a lady being ditched leaving a freedom to openly grope, cat-call with no compunction.

I'm so very sorry that so many of you had to deal with all this shit when you were younger - your stories are shocking and utterly depressing. None of it is news to me, and I know that there is still lots of racism around today, but it's shocking nevertheless to think of young kids having to confront such ugly truths.

My dd is mixed race, her dad is of South Asian origin. I can only hope that this isn't a term that she will ever encounter.

however - yes they do. I have heard them doing it when talking about the Pakistani cricket team.

When?

I've not heard it since maybe the 80s, possibly later. And I listen to a lot of cricket. I also read a lot of live updates.

When you say them, who? Which commentators? Which newsreaders?

Well I couldn't give names as I don't pay enough attention to either the news or the sport, but DH does, has it on daily. Usually Prime 7 of SC10. I've only lived here since 2009 and heard it several times, as I said, usually in conjunction with the cricket team.

You can tell me you haven't heard it as much as you like but it won't alter the fact that I have heard it, and more than once.

prime 7 OR SC10, not of. Don't know how that mistyped.

Saw the thread heading and thought "word? No, a racially loaded term of abuse". Now, any group that has been insulted by the use of a pejorative word can decide to reclaim that term to use it themselves, as seems to have happened to a number of insults. But that doesn't give any of the rest of us who are not part of that group any right to waltz around randomly using that offensive term "because some of them use it". Racist, and frankly arrogant. Good on you for challenging your "friend".

I have heard it. Not recently. Actually I'll review my earlier post and say I probably did hear it in the 90s. If I had heard it recently, I'd certainly have paid attention to who said it, and when, and in what context.

I shall listen more closely this season.

I'm so sorry for those whome it triggered such horrible memories I prob didn't think the little through properly, it's a word that I would never use so o really didn't know where to start. I've sent friend a message advising that she reads the thread and how disgusted I am that she refuses to accept that she might have got this wrong and that I don't want anyone around my family that thinks it's ok to speak like that, again sorry for revoking any unhappy memories just didn't know how to write it down ( there wasn't a good way iyswim

enormous and other who posted such horrible experiences - I'm so sorry to hear that. for what it's worth.

I cannot understand why anyone would want to use a term that they know will or may offend others. Even if some members of the relevant community are purporting to reclaim it - so what?

The association with racist incidents and racism is still there no matter what the intention of the user. Others above have mentioned triggering and I think that is the key to why these terms are so offensive. It is also why I dislike the idea of reclaiming as triggering will still happen for others if, say, a black person is using the n word. The hearers will still have to hear it.

Fwiw legally speaking if you use the p word (unless you are Pakistani) you are being racist - possibly even if you are Indian depending on context. So really the debate has been had and lost by all those who think it's fine to go around using this language.

The thread title alone made me shudder.

I never normally look at or respond to AIBU because it usually makes me so angry and depressed in equal measures. Really wish I hadn't today but feel compelled to respond.

It is racist to use that term (everywhere imo) most definitely here in the UK. If you didn't know that before due to where you were raised, you know it now.

We all know what it means and how much if offends people here in The UK. She may not be racist just ignorant. If she heres her friends use it and uses it with them then she's just a silly person. Its like the N word. Some blacks may use it but no one else should.

Clearly not everyone does know what it means and how much it offends - as evidenced on this thread

I've asked MNHQ to do something about the title

oh did she start about how NOT saying it was the evil of 'PC'?
anyone who starts on about PC is an offensive twat.

Oh jolly good, MNHQ have changed the title of the thread.

I don't think it's necessarily a racist term - I wouldn't have a problem with a Pakistani person calling themselves a Paki.... Just as an Australian might called themselves an Aussie or a Scottish person a Scot...

Where the line blurs here is that - for many English people - the term has been (is?) still used in a derogatory sense... Also many English people may not correctly identify a Pakistani person. And (AFAIK) it can be quite insulting to Indian nationals (just as a Scottish person may not like to be called English or Irish)

So, whatever others - who may know a lot more about the subject and not have our history - do... It's still (IMHO) an offensive term for a British person to use.

Again, Scot is not short for Scottish, or an abbreviation, or a nickname. It's not a valid analogy.

phoebeophelia referring you to Runawaytosea on page 3. Please read.
My ex used to refer to the corner shop as the P* shop as did his children. No amount of remonstrations worked and even pointing out that the owner was a white man failed to change this deeply ingrained and born of ignorance prejudice.

"Scot is not short for Scottish" - I did not know this. What is the difference? Genuine Q, am ignorant antipodean.

Scot is a noun and refers to a person who is Scottish. "Scots" is either the plural of Scot (as in Mary Queen of Scots) or it can be an adjective as in Scots Law or function as an adjective as in Scotsman. Scottish is also an adjective.

On the adjective aspect:

www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/09/scot-scotch-scottish.html

I'm so sorry to hear what some if you have gone through-it's horrid, especially of teachers not intervening.

However I think the people who are 'reclaiming' offensive terms & using them are as aware as others that they will cause offence-no? I was saying that doesn't make sense. I believe that everyone has to be treated equally & nobody is more equal than others. Are the offensive terms less hurtful coming from the minority group? I think this needs to be looked at. Do we tell children that only the minority groups are allowed to use offensive terms in the playground? What kind of message does that send?

Also people using racist terms AREN'T always racist, (or the definition that I understand of racist where they believe one race to be superior). Thankfully society progresses so what was once acceptable terms are still used by e.g. some older people when they are clearly offensive to most of us & in this situation the older person needs to be told or reminded. I don't think that makes them racist, or not always. I now work for an older people's charity in a backward little town that until recently was not very multicultural at all, hence any offensive terms, or any terms for minority groups at all were rarely used. The best I feel I can do on the very rare occasion that someone says something they shouldn't, is gently tell them why they shouldn't say it & what they should say instead. Mostly people listen, however I have seen someone else trying to give the same message in a more aggressive & indignant way-funnily enough people are less responsive. And there are probably a very few people out there who just don't care about anyone else's feelings & have an 'I'll do & say what I want/it's pc gone mad' attitude.

shes an idiot