My friend keeps using this racist term

[Mrsbird311]

A really good friend has on the last couple of occasions used this term to describe someone from Pakistan each time I've said to her that people don't use that term and that it's very offensive but she won't have it, she says its just short for Pakistan, like we would call a Scottish person a scot, I don't see it like this and told her that it is really offensive she then got cross with me and said I'd gone all PC on her, I told her she sounded like an Alf garnet type bigot, I know she isn't a racist person in the slightest but she can't see this is offensive who is BU?

Tulip - the correct term is Pakistani. Do not shorten it in the UK.

What Thumbwitch said

I want to know if people are offended by Pakistani people calling themselves pakis?

I suspect a lot of people of Pakistani and other Asian origin would be offended and upset by Pakistani people using this term, yes.

I do think individuals have a right to self-identify as they please, but I know a lot of Asian people who wouldn't agree.

even if your friend genuinely doesn't mean it to be offensive, it is a word with roots too steeped in racism and abuse to be used casually.

it's not like adding 'stani' takes that much effort is it?

Question: if someone you know routinely uses this word about themselves (Asian), do you ask them not to in your presence?

I wouldn't ask them to stop using it in my presence, no, but I would ask them not to say it around my dd.

adsy go watch Pride. Possibly that will explain why people reclaim terms and why it's still not OK for you to use them because of that.

As well as the fact that there are a lot of Asian and Black people who don't use P and N** and there is debate in those communities about it and whether people should use those terms. As someone who doesn't have to put up with racism, should I muscle in and tell them how to have that debate? No.

I would never use it as I think it's a word that has racist connotations in the UK.

The word itself isn't offensive tho.

She is.

If she's absolutely sure that the brown skinned person she is referring to is originating from Pakistan (as opposed to one of many other countries where brown skinned people may hail from, including our own) then the correct adjective, where relevant, is Pakistani.

I don't agree that she is necessarily racist, The word itself is only now seen as a racist term because it has been used in a derogatory way to describe Asian people, particularly back in the 70's and 80's. She has not spoken about the person in a derogatory fashion. She is, however, ignorant and not a nice person to carry on using such terminology when you have pointed out the offensiveness of it although she must have been living on the moon to not know this

There is nothing offensive about the word itself, but in this country is so widely used by racists it is unacceptable.

But mama, I think it is racist to wilfully persisting in using a term that is widely acknowledged as racist, even when you have been made aware of this fact.

If someone has been told that a term is racially offensive and then continues to use it, how can that use not be racist?

And I'm a little about her not being racist considering she used the word about someone Indian. Smacks of disregarding people and their feelings. Or, wants to use the word so much, she doesn't care if the person concerned isn't even Pakistani.

I grew up in Leicestershire and heard the word a lot as a kid in the 80s. It was always derogatory and therefore is a racist term.

Haven't heard it for years as people are generally more clued up on offensive language. I was shocked tho when a guy asked me where I was from and informed me leicester was all 'bud bud ding ding'. I assumed he was racist too and avoided further contact.

It is also racist to use it as a generic term to describe someone with brown skin, when the person she is talking about is not even from Pakistan but from India!

And another thing - the mere fact that she has accused the OP of having "gone all PC on her" speaks volumes - she knows it's an unacceptable term in polite society, clearly!

I'm indian. I use it about myself and other Asians as do a lot of Asian people I know. Usually in a self-aware jokey way with people I know as a pp above said she heard some girls joking.
I don't use it to have serious conversations about race/countries etc.
I don't use it in front of non-Asian people ever or colleagues.
I don't think that because I has it in a very specific way that it's ok for non-Asian people to use it at all. I know my intentions. I don't know theirs. There is no way a white person can say it without it being an issue.
I've used it for 20-odd years and know that I'm using it in a jokey self-aware way

'Budbud dingding' is used as is 'freshie' by Asians. It's all jokey. Alot of It comes from stuff like goodness gracious me a tv show which was all about poking fun at Asian stereotypes. (Incidentally I don't think that show would be made anymore)

It's is racist which ever way you use it, pejorative or not.

Mind you I complained abut a lady using the phrase 'because I don't want to smell like a paki' at work and was told that it wasn't racist as she didn't mean it I that way.

But again a white person saying Leicester is all 'budbud dingding' as above is clearly racist.
Asian people don't have a problem with lots of Asians in one area! So if an Asian person said it the ramifications are not the same. A white person saying it suggests they think there's 'too many' Asians

It's become a totally unacceptable term in the UK. If she doesn't know that then she must be very ignorant indeed. You are right to object to it.

Madame sounds as though your managers at work need training.

I don't get "budbud dingding", or "freshie" - what do they mean?

I think the problem is that a lot of people are mistaken in their definitions of 'racist'.

My late dad, for example, believed wholeheartedly that, as he didn't think black/asian/minority group individuals were inferior to him, then he wasn't racist and therefore nothing he said could be considered racist.

Similarly, he would come out with some sexist corkers, but as he was a father of daughters, that made it ok, as he didn't think women inferior

This faulty logic is really quite common in that age group...

urrrghhh haven't heard the term 'budbud dingding' since the eighties, and it is most certainly not a complimentary or descriptive term. I remember having it shouted at us by white skin heads whilst walking home from school, they weren't being complimentary they were being threatening and racist.