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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is unacceptable and wonder why Scotland is fair game for racist attacks like this

327 replies

ScotsWhaHae · 09/03/2015 13:11

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/mar/09/steve-bells-if-

It's not even funny.

Incest? Wtf?

I'm disappointed in the guardian. It raises the question though, substitute the Scottish references for some other nation, would that be acceptable?

We got told repeatedly about the anti English sentiment north of the border last year, during the referendum. Shit like this isn't appearing in Scottish editions of the news papers.

Along with the casual racism lets add sexism into the mix. We have a female first minister. Repeatedly in main stream media I hear people talk about Alex salmond and the snp. He's not the leader of the party or the first minister. Is the press that out if touch with Scottish politics or are they just ignoring Nicola on account of her begin female?

And let's not get started on 'the wee lassie with a tin helmet' comment. But that won't be in any of the English editions will it?

OP posts:
TheChandler · 10/03/2015 21:24

Itsallgoingtobefine for someone who professes to know so much about Scotland and who likes to tell others what to think, you really need to inform yourself a bit more about what is going on in (presumably) your own country. Preferably without the rose tinted glasses on.

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 21:25

And again... what are you on about?

OP posts:
TheChandler · 10/03/2015 21:26

ScotsWhaHae What are you on about Chandler?

And I'm not asking what you're on about regarding the database.

TheChandler · 10/03/2015 21:27

And here is the link that didn't make it the last time!

www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/human-rights-legal-challenge-threat-to-plans-for-scotlands-through-the-back-door-iden.120269917

TheChandler · 10/03/2015 21:30

So the point is, if you are too blinkered to work it out for yourself, is that Scotland is a country with a newish government which is already facing human rights challenges on its proposed legislation (lets not even mention the state appointed guardian for every child born in Scotland...), which consistently fails to even debate the Edinburgh statutory notice scandal right on its doorstep, which shows no interest in tackling the Robert Henderson QC/Nicholas Fairbairn alleged sex scandals that would put Westminster's in the shade.

And you are worried about cartoons, which simply represent political satire that all governments tend to be subjected to?

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 21:34

That wasn't your point. You were rambling about foot soldiers and what not.

But digress if you must. If I recall correctly you beat the same drum throughout the referendum threads too.

OP posts:
TheChandler · 10/03/2015 21:36

What is it that you are actually trying to say ScotsWhaHae?

That anyone who doesn't agree with the Scotland is wonderful mantra is stupid, rambling, waffling, etc.?

Do you find that works well for you?

And if you are familiar with the referendum threads, you will certainly be familiar with the boycott.

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 21:44

Focus, that's what I'm saying. We were on the topic of boycotts and foot soldiers then you jump to issues with city of Edinburgh council and databases.

No one has said there wasn't a photo doing the rounds online listing companies to boycott.

It was a bit silky, in my opinion.

But not snp propaganda. As you claimed.

OP posts:
Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 21:46

It's all coming back to me. There were 2 or 3 people that were impossible to engage with on the referendum threads. So much so that even those on 'your side' didn't bother.

OP posts:
CrystalCove · 10/03/2015 21:52

Chandler no SNP is not the same as SNP supporters. You made a ridiculous claim that the SNP called for a boycott of No supporting companies. You are lying. Probably got a bit carried away.

TheChandler · 10/03/2015 21:56

ScotsWhaHae It's all coming back to me. There were 2 or 3 people that were impossible to engage with on the referendum threads. So much so that even those on 'your side' didn't bother.

And there was me thinking the pause was the usual Yes supporting snipers searching back through past threads to make their usual accusation of "You've changed your username!"

I'm not lying about anything CrystalCove? Why doesn't the SNP condemn the behaviour of the cybernats? Why doesn't it lead from the front and set a good example and simply give some of its supporters some guidance on decent, and moral, behaviour?

CrystalCove · 10/03/2015 21:58

You are Chandler - you stated the SNP called for the boycott - they didn't. So that's a lie in my book.

TheChandler · 10/03/2015 22:01

You are all right, of course. I'm a rambling, lying person who is impossible to engage with.

Therefore my views don't count. Probably you should even take away my vote, or maybe just make me listen to semi-educated rantings, trying to pose as authoritative, as punishment?

Once you've driven most of the population out of Scotland, will you be happy?

you stated the SNP called for the boycott

Funnily enough though, I do not recall using those words.

CrystalCove · 10/03/2015 22:04

What you said is clear to see further up the thread - you called it "their list" of companies re the SNP. It is not "their" list and never had been. So yes that's lying.

DowntownFunk · 10/03/2015 22:04

Well, the MN advice is always when someone tells you who they are, listen.

CrystalCove · 10/03/2015 22:06

And I have absolutely no idea what you are on about about not having views that count or me wanting to take away your vote? How could I possibly do that or even want to Confused

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 22:07

Who are the cybernats?

OP posts:
TheChandler · 10/03/2015 22:09

DowntownFunk theres a few others whose advice I would put above mumsnet!

ScotsWhaHae I really hope you find a cure for your amnesia.

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 22:15

Are they an entity? A gathering of like minds? Who coined the phrase?

Is it just a term used, quite a nifty term at that, referring to a nationalist online? A nationalist as in am snp member/voter or an independence supporter?

Please define the term for me.

OP posts:
Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 22:16

Is it just when things get heated the term is used? Is there an anti indy equivalent?

OP posts:
CrystalCove · 10/03/2015 22:16

This is one of the usual tactics of the SNP though - censoring other people's free speech and laying on the victimhood thick and exaggerated. Who can forget their list of "prohibited companies" which their supporters were meant to avoid after the Referendum, because they had publicly acknowledged support for the Union?

Reads to me as you are saying the SNP had a list of companies they wanted people to boycott. Except they didnt.

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 22:20

Do you expect every political party to issue online behavioural guidelines? Or just the SNP? Is it only SNP 'cybernats' who display less than exemplary behaviour online?

I'm guessing yes. Just like we're to believe it was Yes supporters (who may or may not have been snp supporters) who behaved shitty during the referendum.

OP posts:
Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 10/03/2015 22:21

*and only yes supporters

OP posts:
DowntownFunk · 10/03/2015 22:31

is there an anti indy equivalent?

Aye, but wouldn't be polite to post Grin

TheChandler · 10/03/2015 22:39

ScotsWhatHae Please define the term for me

If we want stuff done for us, we generally have to pay these days - no servants any more in the fairer and more just Scotland I thought?

Do you expect every political party to issue online behavioural guidelines? Or just the SNP? Is it only SNP 'cybernats' who display less than exemplary behaviour online?

Work it out for yourself (seriously, if you are claiming never to have heard of the activities of the cybernats, then you really need to do a bit of reading if you are as interested in this subject as you claim to be). Personally, I find it beggars belief...

The cybernats are generally identified to have arisen with their attack on George Foulkes. They then distinguished themselves with further abusive online trolling which spilled over into real life when it manifested itself in finding out people's addresses and those of their relatives, and targeting any high profile figure who dared to speak out against the Yes campaign - from the famous elderly solider, to Sir Chris Hoy and J K Rowling. They generally use the tactic of flooding the websites of media outlets which involve debate on real life issues affecting Scotland with abusive comments so that transparent and open debate is stifled, and then tend to claim that no debate exists because they are right, or any critics are mad/bad/sad/deluded:

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9129998/Welcome-to-planet-Cybernat-where-the-air-is-toxic.html

www.spectator.co.uk/features/9298422/cybernats-show-the-dangerous-zeal-of-the-convert/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/12/cybernat-attack-jk-rowling-scottish-voters-online-abuse-scottish-independence

Theres an awful lot about them on the internet (as indeed there is about the boycott), and I think any student of political science would have to include them in any study of modern Scottish politics. So I'm afraid pretending not to know about them or pretending that they don't exist is not particularly credible.