to think this is unacceptable and wonder why Scotland is fair game for racist attacks like this

[ScotsWhaHae]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/mar/09/steve-bells-if-

It's not even funny.

Incest? Wtf?

I'm disappointed in the guardian. It raises the question though, substitute the Scottish references for some other nation, would that be acceptable?

We got told repeatedly about the anti English sentiment north of the border last year, during the referendum. Shit like this isn't appearing in Scottish editions of the news papers.

Along with the casual racism lets add sexism into the mix. We have a female first minister. Repeatedly in main stream media I hear people talk about Alex salmond and the snp. He's not the leader of the party or the first minister. Is the press that out if touch with Scottish politics or are they just ignoring Nicola on account of her begin female?

And let's not get started on 'the wee lassie with a tin helmet' comment. But that won't be in any of the English editions will it?

I can actually "get" the "joke" once it's been explained to me too.

However, a joke that requires you to know the quote, and to turn the whole thing around so that it doesn't mean what it appears to mean, and is saying something obscure about what the SNP will do for power....

... is a joke that isn't really working.

And the fact that something is supposed to be a joke, does not make associating the SNP/Sturgeon/Salmond/Scots with incest OK, especially not as most people won't get the (laboured and obscure and unfunny) "joke" anyway.

I defend the right to satirize politicians. That doesn't mean you can get away with deeply offensive, racist attacks by saying "it's a joke". That has been the defence of two-bit racists, sexists and homophobes for centuries and is used to keep people down when they object.

I've never heard the 'Scottish people are touchy' stereotype before.

It's a handy new way to make another sweeping generalisation about an entire country, RatBag ...

I've heard the stereotype, many times. Shocking that a stereotype doesn't accurately reflect a nation, eh?!

I notice it is always the minority community that are described as touchy, never the majority.

When my mother (Yorkshirewoman, 1st in her family to get any tertiary education) was at university the poshos described people like her who . objected to how they were characterised as 'chippy'. Those who didn't modulate their accents and play down their origins to fit in were 'professional Northeners'.

This sounds like the same kind of thing.

I'm desperate for Scotland not to leave the UK and condemn England and Wales to permanent right-wing governments and the triumphant return of 1950s social attitudes. Please don't go!

It is true that being touchy is considered a Scottish stereotype. Unfortunately you have just played right up to it

Ah yes how dare someone Scottish like me possibly be offended by something suggesting incest is their national pastime eh! How "touchy" am I because not only dont I find it funny but feel really angry that this is seen as acceptable enough to be publiushed in a National newspaper!! . Zoomzoom has it spot on.

And no, despite explanations about the "joke" its not a play on that saying.

That statement about me playing right into the touchy stereotype really implies that it's my responsibility to modify my behaviour and reactions because of a stereotype that is in existence that I have no control over.

Steve Bell is a self-important twat, about as funny as migraine. The funniest thing he ever did was put John Major's Y-fronts outside his trousers 25 years ago... And how hilarious that was?

Ubik: Can I ask.., what are these English cultural traditions of which you speak? What 'social group' ?

That question is downright American in it's determined obtuseness.

I have tried for ages to work out why this is supposed to be funny. My conclusion is I think maybe it's also supposed to be having a go at Labour, suggesting that they will accept any bottom line demand from a coalition partner in order to be in government. I didn't laugh.

That question is downright American in it's determined obtuseness.

Why not bring a bit of anti-American xenophobia into the discussion?

Actually Americans understand the concept of ethnicity fairly well as it is enshrined in our laws in various places (the US census for example, which differentiates ethnicity and race).

It's not funny.

McWhirter did a great piece about this in the Herald today. www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/comment/columnists/a-general-election-campaign-that-is-turning-into-a-vile-witchhunt.120264319

This was a particularly entertaining piece in the Mail recently "If Scotland rules England, I can foresee the Thames foaming with much blood" archive.today/coKp6

I found it funny. I'm a Scot in Scotland. NS, like her predecessor AS, will do anything for power.
I can see it might offend but it is not racist! Scottish is not a blood 'race', nor are we oppressed. I hate the victim mentality of many Scots.

I saw that McWhirter piece yesterday and thought about this thread. It's very good.

Thanks for linking to that itsall I read that earlier and I'd urge as many people to read it as possible. Then take a minute to analyse the bull shit English based media is feeding you.

The Scots are being depicted as a kind of "enemy within", an alien force seeking to exert control over England

And all because when we vote in this general election it might just make a difference, for the first time.

will do anything for power

Would you care to elaborate on that? Given that you are talking about the current and former first minister of Scotland I'd say they have already had/currently have quite a bit of power.

And let's not forget that piece would have appeared in the print version of the mail on Sunday, but not in the Scottish edition.

I don't see why Scottish votes making the difference to who forms the UK government is any better or worse than English votes making the difference as to who forms the UK government. Or Welsh. Or Northern Irish.

The English may mostly vote Tory but have to put up with a Labour/SNP coalition thanks to votes from other parts of teh UK, principally Scotland. So what? The Scots have often mostly voted Labour and yet had to put up with a Tory government.

Anyone who minds this should be campaigning for boundary changes, reforming the number of constituencies and ending first past the post in favour of proportional representation. They won't, of course.

MonstrousRatbag

I agree. And the real problem is it looks like the Scottish electorate have worked out a way to stick together and effect change on the political process, instead of being happy to be divided and ruled. And that will never do. These days, you have to be happy to be isolated and alienated from the political process, makes you a lot easier to control.

Tell me, is there another group of people you would tell to get over it when faced with discriminatory abuse?

The English. Try being English and blamed for everything that is wrong in Scotland. Try doing, as a colleague did, and raising an example of the way something is done well in England, in a meeting, and being told (by a Senior Leader) "But if the English are doing that, it is the last thing we want to do."

Try being a Scot who is a proud Brit but is called Anti-Scottish for being part of the (very nearly) 56% who voted no.

Try being gleefully told of England's loss in a sporting event EVERY TIME with no, "Sorry your team lost." Just a "England - so happy - shits deserve to go down." (or similar). I would NEVER gloat over the fact someone's team had been beaten, unless beaten by my own team. But to go with ABE (Anyone But England) in Sport really rankles.

I have lived in Scotland for a very long time. I love some Scots but the comments coming from educated, well brought up people who would never dream of attacking someone for being French / Italian / Pakistani / American - but the English are fair game. And the poison and vitriol pouring out of the mouths (and keyboards) of the 45% (or 44.7% actually) is appalling.

The very real threat of the UK being run by a small group of people who are actually seeking to break up the UK is terrifying.

As far as I can see (and I am no Guardian reader) the cartoon has only been given oxygen by those who are angry about it. Free speech? Satire? All well and good, as long as they are aimed at anyone but the Scots, apparently.

Rose, have you any idea why the 'Anyone But England' sporting mentality arose? I'm totally not saying I agree with it - but it didn't just suddenly appear for no reason, out of a bloody vacuum ... have you considered its origins at all?

And of course, anti-English nutters do exist. Nutters exist everywhere. But the vast majority do not equate Westminster with English people in general.

The very real threat of the UK being run by a small group of people who are actually seeking to break up the UK is terrifying.

Democracy in operation .

Power, yes, SNP want unquestioning support from all Scots. They were a decent party of the left once upon a time, but all debate is stifled now. NS wants to be pm of Scotland, not fm.
I'm ashamed of the 'poor us' mentality and anti English sentiment off SOME nats. Not all of us Scots think we're poor, misled souls. I'm aware of media bias from all quarters, not least nationalists.

So there is an excuse for it......Love to hear this one.