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Original poster

Drinking in pregnancy. The message still isn't registering

335 replies

kissmethere · 03/03/2015 13:38

Just read an article about the effects of alcohol in pregnancy. Children left with lasting effects of their mothers drinking habits and the mothers are saying they had no idea this would happen. Seriously?
I drank Guinness during my first pregnancy 18 years ago, very small amount at the end, adhering to the old wives tale that it was full of iron and malt. I knew back then that there was no way spirits or beer or loads of Guinness or much more should be consumed as it was bad for the baby. That was 18 years ago! I knew a woman when I was growing up who's son had permanent bone and facial damage as his mum was an alcoholic and fell over when she was pregnant with him, they had to operate on him while in the womb.
My point is how is it that some women still think alcohol in pregnancy is ok or claim they didn't know what damage it can do to the baby. What help are they getting if they truly know they have an addiction?

OP posts:
Feckeggblue · 03/03/2015 21:42

But that would only be important if Australia were more scientifically advanced than us and knew something we didn't about fAS. Which, no offence to Australia, is extremely unlikely. Otherwise it adds nothing to the debate to know that zero alcohol intake is recommended there

seaoflove · 03/03/2015 21:47

Jeeesus. The foetus "stops breathing". The foetus "stops moving for more than an hour" (they sleep!). The foetus "startles" (so does my 29 weeker in my belly right now, and I haven't touched a drop).

I'm really shocked by the BS being spouted by some of these "experts".

Dysdiadochokinesia · 03/03/2015 21:48

Abstinence is also advised in pregnancy in the USA, Canada, France, New Zealand, Norway and the Netherlands.

RedToothBrush · 03/03/2015 21:49

This ITV programme makes me want to 'high five' my TV.

seaoflove, I agree. And I think Panorama is fucking dreadful scaremongering shit half the time.

Why hasn't the programme just suggested a law that women of child bearing age are not allowed to drink just in case they are pregnant and have done with it.

Feckeggblue · 03/03/2015 21:57

And abstinence is basically the official advice here- from the NHS:

"What's the official advice?
The department of health recommends that if you're pregnant you should avoid alcohol altogether"

I still don't understand what point you're trying to make dysdia? They still don't know what levels are unsafe

anothernumberone · 03/03/2015 21:58

Jelly I think that is a very good post not because I am a huge advocate for drinking in pregnancy but I do think that we have bizarre risk perception.

The advice from the RCOG also recommends no drinking during bf. I happy to know many women who were pregnant or bf for the best part of a decade and I think it is highly unreasonable to make sweeping suggestions that these women should not consume alcohol for s decade and frankly lazy science.

Dysdiadochokinesia · 03/03/2015 22:15

The RCOG only stipulates abstinence in the first trimester. Although official advice from DoH is to avoid alcohol completely it then goes on to say...'but if you choose to drink only drink one or two units once or twice a week etc...' So mixed messages and can be confusing.

ErotomanicIdiot · 03/03/2015 22:41

I can understand why some women think alcohol in pregnancy is okay. There isn't a clear message out there. It's more of a 'you shouldn't really but if you do don't do it too much' message. Hard then for women to make an informed decision. And motherhood is full enough of guilt as it is!

OddFodd · 03/03/2015 22:43

ROFL @ foetuses crossing their arms sternly at their mothers' debauchery sgt.

I think my DS came out like that :o

twomorecats · 03/03/2015 22:43

The occasional drink is ok. All these articles seem to be about binge drinkers.

DrCoconut · 03/03/2015 23:06

Even if I wanted to I can't drink alcohol as the raging sickness is too much. A few sips of water at a time is as exciting as it gets here!

WorkingBling · 03/03/2015 23:18

Additional vaccines are required in Many of those countries too. Does that mean you will all be rushing to make that recommendation in the UK?

Seriously, there is no way to say just because Americans do it we should do it. And nothing on this thread had even vaguely made me change my mind that the odd glass of wine during pregnancy is just fine. Desirable even!

stinkingbishop · 04/03/2015 07:29

This is a well-written meta-analysis of the available clinical data. The conclusion from this is there is no evidence, at 1/2 drinks a day, of any effect on foetal growth much less FAS.

www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/FetalAlcoholSyndrome.html#.VPau_JR_tnE

Worth a skim. Especially for anyone beating themselves up over first trimester drinking before they knew they were pregnant. Or anyone claiming to work in the field and know stuff Smile.

YANAgurl1973 · 04/03/2015 08:04

Oh for gods sake,if you're pregnant, surely you can avoid ANY alcohol for 9 months. Even ONE small glass is not good. If you can't then there's something seriously wrong.

SgtBlousey · 04/03/2015 08:14

It's not a case of can't YANA, it's a case of wanting too. Because there is no more need to abstain entirely from alcohol than there is to abstain from orange juice.

ONE small drink cannot cause any more harm than a Mr Whippy. In fact it will almost certainly (nothing is 100% I suppose) cause zero harm, whereas there's a tiny risk that a dodgy ice cream could cause catastrophic damage to the baby.

If people can't work that out, there's something seriously wrong :)

SgtBlousey · 04/03/2015 08:16

Apols for the inadvertent passive aggressive smiley there Blush

Kittymum03 · 04/03/2015 08:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 08:35

All alcohol = bad
Food = bad
No food = bad
Driving = bad
Staying in the house = bad
Working = bad
Not working = bad
Reading the Daily Mail = bad
Informing yourself about birth = bad
Not informing yourself about birth = bad
Scans = bad
Exposing yourself to new furniture smells = bad
Putting on weight = bad
Not putting on enough weight = bad

Being able to understand the difference between increased risk and actual risk = priceless

For everything else there's Mastercard.

Or something.

I think I'll stick to ignoring the fact that everything causes cancer, do things in moderation and be sensible and enjoy life rather then spend its entirety thinking that if I do think/don't do this for this time period then this awful thing is absolutely definitely going to happen. And then get hit by a meteorite.

What's wrong is when people get to the point where they loose all sense of proportion and live in fear or guilt.

countessmarkyabitch · 04/03/2015 08:52

Oh for gods sake,if you're pregnant, surely you can avoid ANY alcohol for 9 months. Even ONE small glass is not good. If you can't then there's something seriously wrong.

Davsmum · 04/03/2015 09:24

The thought of alcohol made me sick when I was pregnant so I did not have any at all. Usually I love a glass.. or many.. of wine.

There will be women who drink some alcohol with no harm to the baby - and others who drink a tiny amount whose baby will be affected.
The problem is you don't know which type you are,..so to take the risk at all is a bit daft.
Apparently there is evidence of small amounts doing harm - so to think it is only heavy binge drinkers who are at risk is wrong.

NickyEds · 04/03/2015 09:39

and others who drink a tiny amount whose baby will be affected.

No!! That's the point. There has never been a documented case of a baby having FAS from their mother having drunk a "tiny" amount of alcohol.

Apparently there is evidence of small amounts doing harm - so to think it is only heavy binge drinkers who are at risk is wrong.

Where is this evidence???? Read the link stinkingbishop posted.

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 09:49

I hope you all took folic acid before trying to conceive.

And I hope you all didn't have sex before trying to conceive just in case your contraception failed.

Feckeggblue · 04/03/2015 09:51

Davsmum:

The thought of alcohol made me sick when I was pregnant so I did not have any at all. Usually I love a glass.. or many.. of wine.

"others who drink a tiny amount whose baby will be affected."

This isn't true. You can't just make things up and expect people to take it seriously

Yanagirl- what is seriously wrong when you don't want to give up alcohol completely for 9 months? I don't want to, I have a small glass a week. What is seriously wrong with me?

YANAgurl1973 · 04/03/2015 10:00

Because,quite honestly,for 9 months out of your life,you put your selfish needs aside and do what's best for your unborn baby!! Seriously how hard is it to get your heads around???

sparechange · 04/03/2015 10:05

I read a brilliant book while pregnant called 'Expecting Better'. It is written by a professor of economics, who when pregnant with her first was confused by all the conflicting advice on what she should and shouldn't eat, drink or do.
So she looked up all the actual studies that had been used to form the general and sweeping advice statements from various public bodies, government departments.
Regarding drinking, the study that was used as the basis for the American College of Obstetrics (probably not their actual name, but you get the idea) looked at women who drank vs those who didn't, and concluded those who did had higher incidences of babies with problems.
Therefore official advice is don't drink anything at all.
What they conveniently neglected to mention was that the control group of drinking women were also taking cocaine.

The book's author went to look at other studies from Australia, where drinking one or two glasses a week isn't stigmatised in the same way it is in the US, and found zero correlation between light drinking during pregnancy, and problems in childhood and later life.

Also, to the poster who quoted this: "There is no proven safe amount of alcohol that you can drink during pregnancy"

There is also no proven safe amount of orange juice you can drink during pregnancy. Because it is nigh on impossible to prove something safe. However, numerous studies have shown that light drinking doesn't cause harm.