Drinking in pregnancy. The message still isn't registering

[kissmethere]

Just read an article about the effects of alcohol in pregnancy. Children left with lasting effects of their mothers drinking habits and the mothers are saying they had no idea this would happen. Seriously?
I drank Guinness during my first pregnancy 18 years ago, very small amount at the end, adhering to the old wives tale that it was full of iron and malt. I knew back then that there was no way spirits or beer or loads of Guinness or much more should be consumed as it was bad for the baby. That was 18 years ago! I knew a woman when I was growing up who's son had permanent bone and facial damage as his mum was an alcoholic and fell over when she was pregnant with him, they had to operate on him while in the womb.
My point is how is it that some women still think alcohol in pregnancy is ok or claim they didn't know what damage it can do to the baby. What help are they getting if they truly know they have an addiction?

Drinking any amount of alcohol causes cancer. There is no safe bottom threshold, any amount is associated raised risk of with cancer.

Life would be so boring if we only made the safest choices.

sgt blousey

Apparently the baby (well, clump of cells) establishes a shared blood supply with the mother at 21 days post ovulation (so about 14 days after the egg has implanted). Think I've got that right.....At that point, it's attached to the womb lining rather than the placenta, but already feeding from your body. If you think about it, it's the most crucial developmental stage, because it goes from something hardly visible to the naked eye to something with fingers and kidneys and eyes and everything- all in about 10 weeks!

However, the amount of mothers who unwittingly drink lots of alcohol in the first few weeks (before they realise they're pregnant) is HUGE, yet I don't know of any cases of FAS linked to alcohol consumption at this stage of the pregnancy....

If FAS happened because you had a glass of guinness a day, the vast majority of Irish adults would be afflicted with it. Now, we're afflicted with a lot of things, including a great thirst for guinness, but FAS, not widespread.

There is a risk. But it's been overstated, not under. One study I just read states they found FAS is one third of women who were drinking an average of 18 units per DAY. That means two thirds of women who were drinking the equivalent of NINE PINTS a day didn't have babies with FAS. This is a fairly extreme study and there are lots that say different.

Obviously thats still too many babies with FAS. But excuse me if I don't think its too likely that my foetus is going to be afflicted because I had a few pints before I knew I was pregnant, or I have a small glass of wine now and again now that I do know. Cos I don't believe you. I've read the research and thats just not what it says.

Dys, I think your reference to someone who gave birth to baby with FAS after drinking 1/2 pint of Guinness per day will cause totally unnecessary panic to pregnant women.

If you 'work in the field' then you will know this is frankly, more or less unheard of or at least extremely rare. It certainly shouldn't be presented as a likely outcome.

It's a shame there are absolutely no facts to back it up really.

Absolute risk versus increased risk. Look up, learn and then decide whether you want to live your life living in a padded cell or not. Of course that padded cell could cause cancer.

I'm still waiting for the newspaper article saying pregnant women shouldn't drive or get in a car unless essential.

(Everything in moderation within reason is generally fine. There is a massive difference between one glass of wine and a glass of wine every night)

Red do you remember the recommendations that came out stating that pregnant women shouldn't travel in new cars? Or paint the nursery or buy new furniture or use non stick frying pans or shower gel or moisturiser? And not eat or drink anything that came in plastic packaging?

Not because any risk had been proven but because we just don't know what the safe limits are...

Thank you, stubborn :)

The DM article linked to is about this itv programme on tonight about drinking in pregnancy - not having yet watched the programme but having read the page I linked to this shocked me:

"Prof Peter Hepper of Queen’s University, Belfast has carried out the only UK research on the impact of low levels of alcohol on the foetus. When Exposure shows this to the pregnant women, they are shocked to discover that even when drinking just one unit of alcohol - well within the government guidelines - the foetus stops moving and breathing for up to two hours and that’s once the alcohol has already left the mother’s body."

I didn't drink once I knew I was pregnant because I watched a documentary about FAS years ago and they featured a woman who had only had a couple of glasses of wine whilst she was pregnant and yet her baby was born with FAS - the conclusion of the documentary was that each foetus has different tolerance for alcohol and whilst most would be unharmed as long as you drank within the recommended limits some would be harmed.

I drank all the way through the first trimester because I didn't find out I was pregnant until after 12 weeks.

Was totally horrified that I'd been drinking alcohol and pregnant at the same time.

Working full time in a job with shifts, I didn't go out socialising a huge amount but I'd certainly drink a couple of glassss of wine when out with friends.

I stopped drinking straight away and didn't touch it again until I was 25+ weeks when I'd have a small glass of wine once or twice a week.

To me it's more disturbing seeing a pregnant woman smoking cigarettes but that's a whole other thread...

"I watched a documentary about FAS years ago and they featured a woman who had only had a couple of glasses of wine whilst she was pregnant and yet her baby was born with FAS - the conclusion of the documentary was that each foetus has different tolerance for alcohol and whilst most would be unharmed as long as you drank within the recommended limits some would be harmed."

Well this has yet to be replicated in any study on alcohol consumption during pregnancy that has ever been conducted. All those studies say that low to moderate alcohol consumption is safe. In fact, one long term study showed low alcohol consumption to be better than none at all.

Even at alcoholic levels of drinking, there is 'only' a 33% chance of the baby being born with FAS so the majority of babies are born unharmed.(I say 'only' to demonstrate that it is a minority, obviously it's still too many)

Actually scratch that. Pregnant women should live in cars. Permanently. Because most accidents happen in the home and this unborn babies at risk. Therefore if you are not in your home, you are safer.

Selfish bastards sitting in their homes, putting their comfort above the safety of their helpless baybees.

Some people don't deserve children

The fetus stops breathing?
But foetuses don't breath intra-uterine.

What an odd statement.

Oh, look, autocorrect is confused

Syk - If this is the first test of putting your kids first, you're failing

Wow. Just wow.

Who is that research at Belfast funded by?

There is a huge culture of misogyny towards women, and pregnant women especially in Ireland, a lot of it coming from the RC church. I would be pretty sceptical, especially as Pacific points out, that the information you've just given is incorrect

Frankly if you didn't spend your entire pregnancy locked in a padded cell covered in safety equipment and consuming nothing but pure mineral water and thoroughly boiled lettuce you are a BAD MOTHER. I mean, the risks are very small, BUT COULD YOU EVER FORGIVE YOURSELF, etc. etc.

I am now reminded of the man I heard on some phone in radio show when I was pregnant for the first time complaining about pregnant women "going out". "Like, to parties and things. And concerts. I know someone who had a miscarriage after going to a party, could they not just think of the baby and give up all that socializing for the nine months."

Isn't FAS actually really difficult to diagnose, and has lots of overlap with all kinds of other problems that have nothing to do with alcohol? As far as I'm aware, a child of a mother who had literally a couple of glasses of wine throughout her whole pregnancy couldn't possibly be diagnosed with foetal alcohol syndrome because its diagnosed by certain pointers PLUS known exposure to alcohol. And that consumption would be well below the level of exposure neccessary. I call bullshit on that one.

Also, I don't know what Dr Peter Hopper is a Dr of, but I sure as shit aren't going to take advice from someone who tells us that a single unit of alcohol makes a foetus stop breathing for two hours. Foetus' don't breathe at all, so no wonder they were shocked by that "finding".

Really no hope with this level of bullshit being promoted as science.

Yes, FAS is called 'fetal alcohol syndrome' because it can only be diagnosed if a number of, sometimes subtle, problems come together AND an exposure to alcohol is confirmed.
It can be very difficult to accurately diagnose.

I completely agree that it's rare/unlikely/uncommon to have a child with FAS drinking half a pint of Guinness a day. But it did happen. The case was even more tragic as she was a non drinker normally and was doing it to increase her iron intake. The point is that the response of the foetus to alcohol is unpredictable. And given that there are never going to be randomised controlled trials and all the confounding factors in any epidemiological studies the picture is never going to be a clear one. I am not judging anyone here, just making the point that it is very hard to give advice on what a safe level of alcohol intake in pregnancy is.

I drank alcohol up to about week 18 then I just went off it. Found out I was pg with ds1 at 20 weeks.
I cried for so long, my new gp ferried other patients through to the other gp, I was there for an hour.
It was horrible waiting to see if he was going to be ok, the next 19 weeks were the most difficult I have ever had to endure.
Luckily he was ok, I wasn't an alcoholic but worked in an industry where being drunk most nights was part of the job.
One glass of wine isn't going to do any damage.

Apart from a glass at a wedding, or one at xmas I didn't drink at all with ds2 and dd.

that it is very hard to give advice on what a safe level of alcohol intake in pregnancy is.

Yes, that is certainly true.
But it would be good if that information could be given in such a way that would allow women to make their own decisions.

Maybe foetuses hold their breath in utero in righteous indignation at their mothers' feckless debauchery.

They probably cross their arms sternly, too.

In some countries (e.g. Australia) the official advice is to abstain from alcohol in pregnancy.

This is some scaremongering, sensationalist stuff, isn't it? You wouldn't get this on Panorama.