Aibu to be schooled at the stats about muslims

[Inabitoftyhme]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11433776/Quarter-of-British-Muslims-sympathise-with-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.html

I think this study is worrying and also fantastic at the same time.

Worrying over the Charlie Hebdo 27%. But fantastic that 93% feel british.

The cartoonists werent goading cavalier, they were poking fun at a religion which many people - myself included - believe is really rather silly. France, indeed britain, has a rich history in this kind of satire. Some of us find it quite entertaining as it happens. It will be a dark day for western civilisation if people like you get their way and purveyors of this kind of humour are murdered in cold blood.

Alec thats a moronic justification and shitty cliche for mocking someones faith "your faith can't be very strong if it can't be mocked" no rather those people mocking are lacking character,integrity and morals if they get satisfaction and enjoyment out of mocking my beliefs. I think ppl who believe in no god are a bit crazy but my mother raised me to not be a bitch. I respect atheists right to believe in no god even i find it strange i never mock in open or privacy. i find agnostics more intresting having met one in the form of my gcse art teacher. I wonder why ppl have so much time and energy to mock ppl of an organised faith if theyre so certain their atheistic beliefs are the truths that we should be living by? It screams insecurity or doubt to me or more likely just a mean of making money i.e hebdo prints, comedy sketches i guess they lack inspiration so pick easy scapegoats like religion?

I can relate to charlottes post and im.shocked she/he is a non muslim.finally someone who sees the duplicity in all of this.i.i wont say i had no feelings for those dead, im. Human and even though i hated rhe actions of charlie hebdo journos i wozldnt wish them dead. but i have more sympathy for ppl dying through hunger and war crimes to be honest..
Only after 9/11 have i felt like i live in limbo. Im not accepted as a brit because im muslim and ukip say im. Not accepted coz im.brown.but in my parents native land i wouldnt be accepted coz i cant speak the language well, and im too western. I still regard myself as british born and raised here but does it matter what i think if the white brits say im not part of their country? I know there are decent brits out there but im beginning to become cynical. Fortunately ive had good english neighbours.all my life and they were white.as a young girl i played with english girls everday till the sun went down and mum called me in. My best friends in school were jamaican and irish. So im up for mixing but since donning the hijab and 9/11 apparently im a terrorist and not worth mixibg with.but wait a minute i thght it was the muslims refusing to integrate whats the truth? This is my truth believe it or not.

I have met with discrimination sincw wearing the hijab.so for 24years i was integrated no one ever said oi paki go home. But since hijab an old lady has been harrassing me for at least 1 year but i ignore her coz shes elderly i dont want to shop her lol.i laigh it ofc bht it upsets me. One elderly neighbour in england said you ppl comd here dump ur mattress in my garden and take ovdr the country? Lol i was so shocked i offered to pay the council to remove the mattress. i had just moved it with my own furniture and i dont dump furniture. After that she apologised but i didnt forget her comment about "us ppl taking over" last i heard we are still a minority. Yet i sympathise with her its like white brits going india takinv over a vicinity in delhi. Im sure the indians wouldnt like it. But we must learn to live together with respect, this universe is for us to share right, well least i thght it was.

I agree with scatter. The grievance and offence industry has grown exponentially since the Rushdie affair. The Islamists were emboldened and encouraged by some white liberals turning a blind eye or sympathising with those calling for the death of a British citizen.

The number of people who give legitimacy to the extremists and do their work for them is truly depressing.

anya - yes I am an atheist, but I certainly don't invest time and energy mocking people's religious beliefs but if others want to do that it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I very talk about religion and most people who know would probably assume that I am agnostic or a Catholic (as I was brought up as one).

I have no respect for any organised religion and I find it very difficult to understand how you - or anyone else - could 'hate the actions of charlie hebdo journos'. I don't hate you - or anyone else that has religious beliefs - I just think you're wrong to believe in something that has absolutely no foundation whatsoever and cannot be backed up with any evidence at all.

Like someone else,said its lazy boring journalism ppl do this crap on the internet social websites blogs etc no one would pay for it or least i thght but apparently civilised ppl pay to look at garbage. I have a right to detest something i regard as offensive. Id be against it if it were jesus too because i believe in him too wacky as it sounds.

But i think your beliefs are wacky yet i wouldnt encourage muslim journos to produce publications mocking you or any other belief system. I thght journalists had an important job to do. I can think of millions of issues occuring at the time of the hebdo attack that took a backseat because western journalists had died an d a propaganda machine had been halted for a while. It is propaganda theyre protecting not freedom of speech. Why would public money be spent guarding hebdo offices. If ita freedom of speech why did the french not mention the large majority of law abiding citizens in france,it was as if they did not exist. Even in 9/11 they were mentioned to ease tensions.. Its hard to defend france this is a country with europes largest population of muslims part of the eu ally to britain. Yet britain kept quiet when france openly showed its enmity and discrimination towards muslimsby banning the hijab a headscarf in schools and public buildings. Girls as young as 15 had to choose between their exams and their faith france is nothing liks britain and its ideology towards not just muslims but any minorities who have a different religion, culture dress or food is very fascist. Im surprised the french government are shocked by this .if you keep denying people their basic rights and then prod them mock their faith do we then expect to mske daisy chains and hold hands in unity. The violence was wrong but francecreated these problems hebdo was an easy target. Personally i think muslims who have the means shoukd move from france you are not welcome there. You cannot carry out violence better to move somewhere you can practice youe faith and culture without abuse.

I imagine that Britain kept when France banning the wearing of a hijab headscarf in schools and public buildings because it's got nothing to do with Britain what laws France has.

The sooner Britain becomaes a secular society the better for everyone.

So if a hijab is banned will habits on nuns also be banned? What about Jewish women who wear special wigs? What about African women, will they have to remove their head coverings? What about Rastafarian men and Jewish men?
My friend who is from London, 3rd generation Pakistani, never been to Pakistan gave up wearing her hijab in the UK because she used to get spat on regularly. These are the people who are leaving their home country to try and find somewhere they feel accepted. Why can't people just wear what they like? I don't get why it matters so much. When you use a drawing to impose judgement on people and use it to mock them you may as well walk up to any Muslim, Christian, atheist, Jewish or Hindu or Jedi bloody whatever person on any suburban British high street and mock them. Why would you want to do that?

One last thing. Iraq was secular under Saddam. It most certainly isn't now and ceased to be very shortly after the invasion. And I didn't read that on the BBC news website. I lived and worked there from 2000-2003.

The violence was wrong BUT
The murders were wrong BUT
Im sick of hearing this. There is no BUT.

In the real world there is always a but. There are also governments with an agenda and skewed media. Oil is useful as well. In fluffy mumsnet land everyone is a humanitarian socialist but meanwhile the rest of the world carries on.

I am Muslim but I wasn't offended by the cartoons. There is nothing anyone can say or do about the Prophet Muhammad that can lessen his value or status in my eyes.

The Charlie Hebdo attacks were horrific, utterly inhumane and in complete contradiction of Islamic teachings. ALL Muslim scholars I know have repeatedly spoken against them and have constantly been telling their congregation and followers about the dangers of ISIS.

I do think though that the magazine should have been a bit more sensitive, especially in this climate where there is so much anti-Muslim hate in Europe. I would say the same thing if they published cartoons that were anti-gay or anti-Semitic. It shouldn't really be happening in a multi-cultural society. However, this does NOT justify others trying to stop them from publishing them, and certainly not killing them for it. That is unforgivable.

As a Muslim, I really don't believe the stats from radio4. I don't know anyone who would justify the Hebdo killings. I don't believe they are representative and would like further details as to the nature and method of the research.

On another note, if anyone wants to understand why Muslims feel so strongly about Prophet Muhammad - please read his biography. The one by Karen Armstrong may be a good place to start.

I have never ever seen anyone miss out the PBUH before.

Cavalier, what's your point? You don't have to say it or write it every time you write his name.

Nothing just not used to seeing it not used. No point really.

suna : if you want to know why non-muslims are astounded & horrified as to why you can feel so strongly about your prophet, please do a search and read some recent threads. They contain factual references to his conduct, that paints him in a completely different light to the one you have. So far no muslims have been able to defend him or Islam successfully. Perhaps you'd like to come back and answer some of the unanswered questions.

anya :your post is everything that is wrong with the muslim community and why we are completely at odds. There is no introspection and reflection as to whether there may be some faults or issues within your own faith that has led us to where we are. Again read some recent threads, rather than us have the same debates time and time again.

Well said sunabroad.

I am very offended every time I see a woman with her head covered. It hugely offends my feminist principles and drives a nail into the coffin of women's rights in the UK and damages our daughters but I would never want the right to cover a head (except in court and in schools which choose to do so) prohibited nor would I want to blow anyone up who offends me with the headscarf - nor would I even shout at her in the street.

We are a liberal tolerant democracy and all have the right to say there is no God, men and women are equal and most people would be better off once the UK becomes atheist and that most religions particularly Islam as practised in the UK is one of the worst.

The poll fairly accurately reflects views and reflects what I see her in my 60%+ BME London borough where I am hugely in the minority being a white feminist atheist - almost an endangered species in this neck of the very religious woods. I see lots of people working very hard, many from abroad who are mostly all committed to peace and living with their neighbours. Most humans on this planet are good and kind and the UK is one of the most tolerant countries on the planet and long may it remain so.

Apparently there used to be a Government survey which usefully also asked other people who aren't muslim their views too

(Karen Armstrong's books are all worth reading)

I don't believe they are representative and would like further details as to the nature and method of the research.

Details can be found here

comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

Missmia why are you so rude.ppl are talking about muslims like we dont exist im muslim so i spoke up. Tough if you dont like how i feel i dont like feeling like a third class citizen just because i dress differently. I cant sift through threads too busy with my kids. But everyone wants to pass opinions go and ask a muslim theres one near you im sure. Or is it that im not allowed an opinion unless it does go with the status quo?

anya I'm not surprised that you were offended by MistressMia's thoughtless and patronising post.

Asking the magazine to be more sensitive is asking for a limit on free speech though, it wasn't a hatefull magazine and it treated all its targets in the same vein.

While we can all respect other people's right to worship whatever religion they choose, but that doesn't mean we should all adhere to those religious doctrines.

France is a secular state and has been for some time therefore no religion should be able to dictate what should or should not be said. Hebdo where equally critical of the whole political spectrum, not some far right publication that spewed hate, if there was laws broken they would have been brought to justice.

Blasphemy isn't law thankfully because that is a slippery slope.

Whilst the majority of British muslims are secular to a degree these stats do point to a minority (1 in 10) that think violence is warranted for drawing a picture of Muhammed, until we can openly discuss and admit there is an issue with a sub sect of the Muslim community, without the whataboutry of previous wars, disadvantaged, ghettos, not trusting polls and general anecdotes or even daily mail waving then maybe we can progress.

anya - you are allowed whatever opinion you wish. That's the beauty of free speech.

Suna in mainstream islam pbuh is uttered or written everytime our prophets name comes up. There is blessing in doing this and sin for being lax. Peace mercy be upon
him or her is also stated after the male and female companions and every single prophet. Im sure it was just a slip up ppl are so busy typing to get posted they can forget.

Jilly ur not the old woman yelling at me get it off are you 1 year shes been on my case. Why does it offend you. Do girls in skirts exposing their crotches on a friday night not irritate your feminist sensibities equally or is it just the fact i have chosen to cover my body so i have a choice as to which man sees it? I honestly dont care what ppl wear because this is the attitude that i thhght britain wanted us to follow. But it seems as though its a bit of a lie really we must dress the same look the same follow the same views or else we are not british or freedom loving? you dont need to wear less clothing to be deemed a feminist thats such baloney if ever i heard it.

Alec i dont think speech is free especially now muslims have to bw careful what they say otherwise they may be viewed as an extremist.sad really if things go underground u could get angry ignorant youth who carry out attacks like the one in france. And those girls going syria ppl can say let them die they deserve it but theyre so young naive prob too late for them now. I donr think they spoke up about their feelings did they. At their age was thinking about a level options and a part time job icant imagine what was going through their minds its crazy.

anya I don't wish to have an argument with you. I'm not disputing that you are having a hard time and it is wrong that people are discriminating and being rude and obnoxious to you.

However your post was completely one sided and full of factual inaccuracies.

OMG. anya you must be a parody.....I'm out.