Our neighbour...

[MrsSchadenfreude]

He is in his 80s, has been in and out of hospital for the past year (he has mental health problems and is often kept in for several weeks), recently went through a very messy divorce to someone less than half his age. He has become increasingly more and more paranoid that "someone" is out to get him, a professional person, who is being paid by his ex wife. He thinks that people are getting into his flat all the time, moving stuff around and stealing his money. (The stuff, and money, inevitably turns up in perfectly logical places, like his wallet, a folder he keeps personal documents in etc.)

He is frightened to be on his own in the flat, and as a result, bangs on our door three or more times a day, to ask our advice about whether he should call the police about this person "breaking into his flat". He asks to come and sit in with us, wants to stay the night. We are quite happy to give him a cup of tea or have him for dinner from time to time, and do so, but it has now reached the stage where he is driving me absolutely round the twist.

I used to work from home one day a week, but have had to give this up, as he just comes and bangs on the door, if he doesn't see me leave the flat. If he catches me or DH on our way out to work, he detains us, talking about the "break ins". I don't want to be rude, but I couldn't get away from him one day last week (he started crying) and was an hour and a half late for work.

I know he is scared and lonely. I know he is old. I know I should be more tolerant, but he is making my life a misery. I can't step outside the flat without him being right outside my front door. He has carers in twice a day, but he is very rude to them, and they hauled me up the other day when I was working from home, claiming that he had accused him of stealing his money, when it was in his pocket all the time.

We have his daughter's contact details, and have told her what she is like. She just thanks us for being nice to him, and says she doesn't live locally, and has a busy life so can't come up very often.

I've started going into work really early, so that he can't detain me (he usually gets DH instead) and trying to coincide coming home with when his carers will be there, so he doesn't bother me then. It's got to the stage where I feel like a prisoner, and my hours are being dictated by this man. Any ideas what I can do?

Aargh, he has been tap, tap, tapping for 15 minutes now. Will wait for DH to come home and deal with him.

He is still there knocking. It is the non-stop of it that gets to me. He can't just knock once or twice and think oh, they aren't in or don't want to be disturbed. He just carries on and on and on.

Apologies if this has been asked and answered already - but what happens if you open the door, tell him to go away, and close the door again? Would,he pay attention to that?

If he took no notice, could,you call the police again?

It sounds like an incredibly stressful situation for you, and I am appalled that his dd is happy for you to have to live this way, because she doesn't want him to go into a home.

I feel for you op. My mum has mental health issues and was regularly banging on the neighbours doors/windows at all hours because she was convinced someone was living in her loft and that they had placed cameras everywhere. Wondering the streets all night in her dressing gown because she didn't want to be in there as they were going to 'kill her and all her family' . The neighbours would contact me and I would go round but despite me telling her to leave the neighbours alone and no of it is real it wouldn't sink in. When she is having an episode she is not with it at all and will only listen to the voices in her head as they're so real to her. Its distressing to watch

We tried everything to get her help but until she was going to harm herself or others there was nothing they could/would do. MH help in this country is a pile of shite.

Our local council have a number for mental health where you can ring and have a person assessed if they're of concern. Maybe worth a try? Other than SS or police which u have done i don't think there's much else you can do :( hopefully the man finally gets the help he needs soon

How about ringing his daughter every time he continues knocking on your door?

BTW, I do really feel for you. It would drive me absolutely bonkers.

And I would just keep calling the police if he keeps knocking. Hopefully they might get there arse into gear if u keep ringing as they have more power to get him the help he needs then u do unfortunately

I get it, honestly I do MrsS.

MIL would knock once or twice, see you weren't in, then forget and come out two minutes later and knock again.... No ill intent on her part - just short-term memory more or less non-existent.

On the bright side, hopefully after all this you'll have some peace and be able to move on with your life.

I'm stuck with my "neighbour" till one of us dies... :(

Mega - that is exactly, word for word, what he is like.

SDTG - he would wait a few minutes and then start knocking again. He knocked for 40 minutes tonight, then DH arrived and dealt with him.

Breaks my heart that the MH care in this country is so non-existent.

for you MrsS I would be going crazy by now.

I'd be thinking about conditioning him out of his addiction to your door. He knows that persistence pays off. Now try getting angry.

This is a very last ditch effort, but have you tried complaining to your anti social neighbour team at the Council? I mean he's not doing it maliciously but what he is doing is classed as anti social behaviour. Maybe if you reported it through them they would have to take note of what is happening?

Or is it possible you can set up a laptop with a webcam & audio near the front door and monitor what is going on, and pass that footage on to all the relevant authorities?

I'm so sorry I can sense your desperation with this and I wish I could help. Not quite the same but I lived next door to someone who used to constantly keep me awake all night, it's absolutely horrible to feel like a prisoner in your own home. :(

We had to sell our first flat it was lovly and went into rented as we had an elderly neighbour who would knock all the time ... She would stand in the doorway so we couldn't physically get past and just talk at us for hours. She would also wait in our car parking space if we went out to make sure we got home. If we were out late ( we were early twenties) she would wander about the car park until we got back... If we managed to get in we would slowly close the door on her while she was still chatting and would stay chatting... We would get ready in silence in the morning and I would leave very early for work (same time as dh) so we only had to go out the once we would pack everything so we could grab and run for the cars.
It was not living everything we did centred around this woman she had family they visited once a month.....

We moved life got so much better I was on the edge of my seat waiting for the door to go and could nip out to the shop whenever I wanted.

It will end but speak to anyone and everyone make a noise and keep asking what will be done and when.

I can't really see what the police are supposed to do here. The neighbour isn't harassing the op in a criminal sense, there's no intent to alarm the op and he doesn't appear to have the mental capacity to understand that his actions are unreasonable. I've seen a lot of reports in the papers over the last year about how the police are not the right public service to call on to deal with people with mental health problems.

If any service should be being chased surely it's the social service. Wouldn't the neighbour have a social worker already if he has carers?

I agree with pp I would make myself a nuisance to the SS and the daughter (I know she has siblings, it shouldn't all be down to her but it is her problem not the op's). Public services are so stretched that people are ignored unless they can make themselves too difficult to overlook. Complain every day until someone does something.

Sounds awful MrsS. Hopefully Arendelle has already set you on the right track.

The Care Act has recently changed and SS have a greater duty if care these days. I'd be calling up the local council and ask for the duty social worker. In all discussions and correspondence, stress the phrases adult safeguarding and lack of capacity and vulnerable older person and emotional/financial elder abuse due to the fact that his children are not acting in his best interest and self neglect due to lack of capacity. If no joy, demand to speak to the social work senior/manager. Find out the contact details for the Head/Director of Adult Social Care and write to them. Write to the Chief Exec Officer of your council. Also, collar the carers and find out where they come from. Speak to the area manager and demand that they make a referral to SS. Escalate to the next manager, etc, etc. Maybe even try writing to the Chief Exec of your local NHS trust.

Maybe threaten to take it to the press. My council and NHS trust are constantly in the local (free crap) paper and I know that they don't like and often take action.

I think the police still have a duty of care to flag these kind of MH things (sadly not uncommon - particularly among the elderly) to the relevant authorities for follow up though...?

And enough "flag ups" from the police, rather than OP, might start drawing some attention...?

Lady I understand your line of thinking but it's crazy thinking to argue that someone should call the police to a man suffering from a mental health problem or dementia, but not committing or a victim of a criminal act or causing danger to himself or others, effectively in order to get the police to telephone SS. You wouldn't go to A&E to ask medical staff to telephone the police about a burglary.

You're right in the absence of the preparedness of the correct services to deal with these situations the police have traditionally ended up dealing with them but I think that is changing.

"A senior police officer has told Sky News his officers spend 20% of their time dealing with mental health issues even though they are not trained or equipped to do so.
Assistant Chief Constable Paul Netherton from Devon and Cornwall Police said tensions were rising between police forces and mental health care providers, possibly as a result of shrinking budgets........We haven't got the skills, we haven??t got the facilities."

"the CCC (National Crisis Care Concordat) recognises that currently too much onus is placed upon the police to respond to mental health crises, resulting in S136 Mental Health Act powers being used and, on occasions, individuals being held in police custody for lengthy periods of time, with all the associated risks and resource demands of such interventions." Surrey PCC

"Police have been forced to "fill the gap" because of a lack of NHS facilities, the chairman of the cross-party committee, Labour's Keith Vaz, said.
"These people are not criminals, they are ill and often are experiencing a great deal of trauma," he said.
He said in many cases detentions acted as the "starting point" for those who were mentally ill to enter the criminal justice system - often ending in prison." BBC News

"Theresa May will pledge to free up police officers from having to care for people with mental health issues with millions of pounds to provide beds.
Police have complained of effectively playing the role of health workers when called to deal with vulnerable people because there are no beds to take them and they have to be held in police cells.
It is estimated up to 40 per cent of police time is taken up dealing with mental health issues when officers should be combatting crime." The Telegraph

DH was home yesterday, and our neighbour had a visit from both his carer and social worker. He managed to grab them on the way out, and had a chat with both about the neighbour and the problems he is causing not just us, but the others in the block. I am not sure it will have done much good, the social worker seems a bit wet, and DH said he didn't say much, just stood there and nodded. But at least he has flagged our concerns. And I will follow up with SS next week, just to reinforce the point. (And huge thanks to Arendelle for her advice.)

In a way it must be a relief to know it's not just you he's targetting. Can you speak to the other neighbours about it and find out how they're dealing with it? I'm glad you feel you're getting somewhere.

Gooo - it's a small block. The man upstairs absolutely refuses to engage at all, and calls the police if he bangs on his door all the time. He also called the police when he found him naked on the stairs one morning. He was sympathetic initially, but has just been driven crazy by him. He doesn't bother the woman in the other flat at all (but she is deaf and wouldn't hear him anyway!) as far as I am aware, just his nearest two neighbours.

I think, sadly, that your neighbour has the right idea. I do feel sorry for him that he's not getting the help he needs but it's hideous that his neighbours have to put up with that level of disturbance. I really, really hope you get some respite from it soon.

PollysHoliday - you are right about the burden on the police, caused by the failings in the mental health services, and you have a valid point about whether calling the police should be the way to get Social Services' attention - but what other realistic options does MrsSchadenfreude have?

She cannot go on living this way - and neither can her neighbour. He needs and deserves to be looked after properly, in a safe and caring environment - he isn't getting that at the moment, and the OP and her dh are having to fill the huge gaps in his care. They both deserve far better than this - and I am sure that, if there was a better way to get it, she would have done it by now.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. The other option is to leave it until he either hurts himself or someone else. Then the authorities would have to act - but arguably more resources would be needed to deal with the situation then.

This is awful for you. Your poor family.

I know this sounds cruel, but given his paranoia about cameras, would it be worthwhile installing a visible CCTV camera at your door? Not only could it capture the extent of the problem, but it might act as a deterrent for him.

The social worker turned up again with the carer this morning, so hopefully things will start to move now. He wants to go into a home, he said to DH last night - he wants to be "looked after", which is why he doesn't want to go into sheltered accommodation. His carer has said that he has not been assessed as bad enough for a home, and the move to sheltered accommodation would be the first step. He has flooded our hall twice, when his bath has overflowed, but I am not sure he has been near the bath of late, as he is often a bit whiffy. He doesn't cook, beyond heating up food in the microwave, so hopefully he won't burn down the block.

I think he is also phoning the police on almost a daily basis, as he is convinced that someone is going to kill him and that "they" have put cameras all round the flat.

I shall see if there is any progress this week, and if not, will follow Arendelle's suggestions. DH is going to call his daughter again.

If you have not already done so (sorry not read all the thread) please do contact social services. They give more weight to independent concerns rather than those of relatives sadly. These are classic dementia symptoms and it does sound as though he can no longer cope at home. This is down to his daughter to deal and not you and sooner or later an incident will occur making it impossible to continue at home. It does not sound like he is being discharged from hospital with an adequate care plan in place.

You have been very kind and supportive indeed and you need to speak to the services involved and his daughter.