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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think my friend was right to not give up her seat? Yes, another train one.

140 replies

MythicalKings · 21/02/2015 08:19

Friend was taking two of her grandchildren to a city 60 miles away for a half term treat. Part of the treat was the train journey there and back so she reserved seats for the three of them. The journey there was uneventful and they had a lovely day. But were very tired when they boarded the train to go home.

The train had filled up before it left the station and people were standing so she moved one child from his reserved seat to sit with her and the other GC - three of them on a seat made for 2. More people got on at the next station and it was uncomfortably crowded.

A man told my friend his wife needed to sit down so the children should stand. F said they had already given up one reserved seat and they were tired, so the children wouldn't be standing.

The man muttered about people with no manners and went further down the carriage.

She's feeling guilty now but she was so tired she couldn't face standing on a crowded train so didn't offer her seat. I think she was totally reasonable.

MN jury?

OP posts:
bakingaddict · 21/02/2015 10:10

I commute on the tube every day and find all this don't get on the tube or trains with kids at rush-hour absolute bollocks. So what if I or a rail commuter has paid extortinate rail/tube fare to travel to work.

My getting to work doesn't trump anybody else's enjoyment to take their kids for a day-out in the city at half-term. Anybody who complains like this is a mindless moron to me and should go and live in the Outer Hebrides. It's part and parcel of living in a city, a bit of give and take that's all

TwoOddSocks · 21/02/2015 10:12

I don't get the "children should stand for adults thing either". I would certainly put my kid on my lap if possible (he's only 2) so that both child and adult could stand but he's not able to stand as long as an adult and much more likely to fall over so unless the adult is disabled why should he stand for them?

MonstrousRatbag · 21/02/2015 10:13

In my experience men like the one OP's friend encountered never tackle other men like this. They reserve their unpleasantness for women. Which is telling.

TwoOddSocks · 21/02/2015 10:17

I don't understand Kvetch why travelling at rush hour is daft planning. They had reserved seats and were able to seat in their reserved seats, what is daft about that? I'd see your point if she was complaining there was nowhere to sit and trying to chuck someone else out of a seat but she didn't. She planned ahead and reserved.

AGirlCalledBoB · 21/02/2015 10:22

Your friend did nothing wrong.
I too dislike the whole children should stance. When I was 16/17 I took my young cousin out for the day. He was only 2/3, walked all day. The train home he was standing falling asleep on me. Not one person offered him their seat. So now I always give tired children a seat even though I have a pelvis condition. what a rude man!

SoupDragon · 21/02/2015 10:22

Of course, there wasn't actually a seat to give up, only 2/3 of one.

No one is able to judge whether the tired children or the lady needed the seat more. However, I imagine there were people more able to safely give up their seat than an exhausted child.

bruffin · 21/02/2015 10:24

When mine were under 5 i bought them tickets so i could reserve their seats. No way would i go on a two hour journey without reserving seats

merrymouse · 21/02/2015 10:24

Zola - it isn't about martyrdom.

The point is that if you feel the service is poor because there aren't enough seats, that is between you and the train company, not you and somebody else who is just occupying the seat they were sold.

TendonQueen · 21/02/2015 11:06

Monstrous I agree, folks like this seem to see women and children as the lesser beings who should be giving up their seats. Not pleasant.

Definitely NBU. If I saw tired kids on what was clearly a homeward journey without seats I would offer mine. I get tired sometimes but I'm an adult and can cope.

muminhants · 21/02/2015 11:45

If someone reserves seats and has already given one up, they've done as much (or more) as they need to do.

Someone else on the train could give up their seat. There are priority seats anyway so all a person with disabilities needs to do is ask the people in those seats. Or ask the guard if they can sit in first class. Or reserve a seat themselves.

When my son was younger I would have had him on my lap on a busy train but I only have one child. If I had two I couldn't have both of them on my lap and I wouldn't expect a small child to stand. But if 3 of us were only taking up 2 seats we've already given up one seat.

I do wonder why so many people travel at commuter time but only because it's so expensive eg on my line it's £30 before 9am, £15 after 10am with a railcard to London.

ghostspirit · 21/02/2015 11:56

your friend was in the right. she bought reserved tickets so the seats had been paid for. if his wife needed to sit down then they should have reserved a seat like your friend did.

in general if im on public transport and someone needs to sit down i will get my 4 or 7 year old to sit on my lap. or i will stand. im not so bothered about the 7 year old standing but would rather the 4 year old did not. but no reason she cant sit on my lap anyway.

SunnyBaudelaire · 21/02/2015 12:00

well obviously if she had reserved seats then all the party had tickets, and she had already given up one of those seats.
Therefore she was not BU.

Children are treated like crap in this country.

I will never forget when our young and dynamic teacher went on an exchange to Russia and how we all gasped when she told us that on the Moscow metro, adults were expected to stand so that children could sit down! We were totally shocked!

chimchimini · 21/02/2015 12:09

Your friend sounds lovely, definitely NBU. The man needed a lesson in manners. Poor kids to have to listen to a nasty grown up like that be rude to their grandmother.

Sleepymorningcuddles · 21/02/2015 12:28

No question.

I am all for giving up your reserved seat to those who need it more but this is not the case here.

A teenage boy once gave up his seat for me when I was standing with a very young DS2 in my arms. I was very grateful. To my disgust, his mother came and questioned me then complained to the guard. I told DS1 to write a thank you note. It came back saying "thanks, my girlfriend and I have been moved to 1st class".

Classy guard that (he left the mother in 2nd class).

Bugsylugs · 21/02/2015 12:51

Another idea if the commuters do not like the more crowded trains during half term how about going in early and leaving early or leaving after rush hour. This is no more unreasonable than non commuters not leaving until after rush hour.

Thumbwitch · 21/02/2015 12:53

Your friend was NBU. I don't agree at all that children should necessarily be made to stand, their legs are more likely to be tired after a long day than healthy adults and if she'd already given up one seat, so 3 of them were sitting on 2 seats, then she'd done enough.

Rude man.

tobysmum77 · 21/02/2015 13:03

It isn't always possible to reserve seats if you don't know which train you'll be getting.

But the idea that someone with 2 young children isn't entitled to seats is bonkers. Having said that I dislike this 'priority seats' obsession because if someone really needed a seat I would always offer them mine, regardless of whether it was reserved or not.

tomandizzymum · 21/02/2015 13:09

I think thetrain company is at fault actually. People pay a lot for tickerts, are able to reserve seats that leave them feeling uncomfortable and obviously they are making a huge profit with crowded trains and cutting costs by not running more trains in peak times. It's disgraceful.

I actually think it's extremely dangerous for children to stand, they cannot reach the bars to hold on. An elderly woman once gave up her seat for my DS aged 3. When I refused, she insisted saying that last week she saw a child receieve a serious head injury on a crowded bus, and they had to stop the bus to wait for the ambulance. Most people don't think about that!

SunnyBaudelaire · 21/02/2015 13:11

You are right tomandizzymum, once I offered my place on a bus to an old lady who ignored me, then to a little one who could hardly stand and was skittering about all over the place.
cue another old lady having a right moan at me! silly old moo.

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 21/02/2015 13:13

You friend wasn't being unreasonable. She already kindly gave up one seat as it is. The man and his wife should've reserved seats and not expected those who had to give up their seats just because they think they need them. What a cheek!

GoadyGeisha · 21/02/2015 13:18

JADS and Queenbean I don't live in Reading or I'd do the Paddington route. I live part-way along the Waterloo line so would have to go to Reading change trains and then go to Paddington. It wouldn't end up much difference time-wise with the changes and would also cost more. I just used that as an example of how a shorter trip that the one in the OP (in terms of miles) can often take quite a while.

Trains from Reading to Paddington today range from 31 mins up to 1hr 05 minutes so you need to time it right!

SolidGoldBrass · 21/02/2015 13:19

This man clearly thought your friend was someone he was most likely to be able to bully into giving up a seat. Even if his wife was tired, he'd have done better to ask loudly if anyone in the carriage would mind, rather than targeting someone he thought wouldn't tell him to fuck off.

SunnyBaudelaire · 21/02/2015 13:22

solidgoldbrass that is so true, picking on an old dear with kids is so much easier than approaching a man!

expatinscotland · 21/02/2015 13:26

I'd have told him to fuck off so I don't think she is being unreasonable. I don't agree that children should give up seats for adults. OAPs don't pay at all if they are travelling on bus pass, able-bodied or not, and no one expects them to give up their seats.

WyrdByrd · 21/02/2015 13:27

SGB I have just been reading the thread and thought exactly the same thing.

I bet he thought he'd get his way more easily asking an older woman with children in tow than asking the nearest apparently able-bodied bloke.

Your friend wnbu. I will always offer my seat & encourage my DD to do the same (she's 10), but I certainly wouldn't in those circumstances as DD is prone to fainting in crowds. We've had to get off busy trains & wait for a later connection previously to prevent her kneeling over.