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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think they should charge the Syria girls

999 replies

adsy · 21/02/2015 08:14

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

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JudgeRinderSays · 24/02/2015 08:18

limeys post isn t stupid she is illustrating t argument that teenagers are easily led and can't be held responsible for their actions in a parallel context. in English law everybody is treated the same so the principle applies across the board or not at all.

ghostyslovesheep · 24/02/2015 08:25

if you honestly think that people suggesting you take a more measured approach to 3 girls getting on a plane if the same as saying it's okay for boys to rape people fair enough - if that is what you consider a sane response :)

I'd love you to find a post that says 'these girls aren't responsible for their actions' (getting on a plane) or 'if they are involved with IS they should not be punished ' or any post that say 'rape is not your fault if you are 15' please point me towards it

I hate how the hysterics response to any one showing an ounce of compassion or a degree of understanding is to accuse them of condoning and encouraging crime - such a shallow and lazy response

Original poster
adsy · 24/02/2015 08:28

ghosty WHY were they getting on a plane? Not just to go on holiday, was it?

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ReallyTired · 24/02/2015 08:30

In the UK 15 year olds who commit serious offences are treated more lienantly. They are jailed in young offender institutes where they can get an education and often their sentences are far shorter than if an over 21 committed an offence.

Anyway there is no evidence these girls have committed an offence. Even those nasty muslims are innocent until proven guilty under English law.

I hope the girls come home safely. Their poor parents must be out of their minds with worry.

benfoldsfive · 24/02/2015 08:30

I seriously can not get my head round this.

Save them, give them another chance they are only teenage girls brainwashed, how have committed themselves to a terrorist regime. A regime that insights hate and violence. That will kill an incalculable amount of people, via torture, bombing, mass murder, kidnap, hijack, massacre.

2 ten year old boys kidnap and kill a 5 year old boy. Hang the devil children'!!'!!

Hmm
ghostyslovesheep · 24/02/2015 08:35

Adsy how do you know?

If they have gone to Syria they will be punished according to the law - end of

I have never been part of that witch hunt Ben - I see work with young offenders - it would be a pretty shit attitude to have in that role!

ghostyslovesheep · 24/02/2015 08:36

I see work Grin - I work - obviously!

WannaBe · 24/02/2015 08:38

oh come on we all know they didn't just "get on a plane." it is common knowledge that they have had contact with terrorist recruiters over in syria. It is common knowledge that they have been visiting pro isis websites. Those stating that all they did was get on a plane are being deliberately obtuce.

Lime's post illustrated perfectly that the way of thinking needs to be more realistic. If we are going to take the line that teenagers are young and impressionable for runing off to Syria to join jihadi fighters, then we have to take the view that teenagers who stay in this country and rape and murder others are equally impressionable, and we need to have compassion for those in the same way. Except we don't.

And yes, IMO marrying someone who rapes and murders women for a living is as good as being a rapist IMO. If you condone what they do, then it's just a short step to wanting to do it yourself.

JudgeRinderSays · 24/02/2015 08:56

I see work with young offenders - it would be a pretty shit attitude to have in that role!

Would it? You would rather have young people with the idea (and we see this a lot) that nothing is their fault.
everybody is responsible for their own actions and needs to own them, not blame oit on the influences they have been exposed to.

loiner45 · 24/02/2015 09:05

the idea that 'evidence' = 'something I found by googling' pretty much sums up the quality of the logic of those baying for these girls blood. Like EveDallas I would prefer to reserve judgment until we have some more facts. That doesn't make me pro-IS, it makes me part of a civilised society that requires proof of guilt, not heresay.

JudgeRinderSays · 24/02/2015 09:15

Loiner- We are discussing the principles surrounding this case, not whether these girls are guilty or innocent of joining ISIS

ghostyslovesheep · 24/02/2015 09:16

are they married? you know more than the police Wannabe maybe give them a call with your new information - it might be helpful

Again not calling young offenders 'devil children' is not the same as saying 'you did nothing wrong' - I'm confused as to why you fine that such a difficult concept to grasp Judge

JudgeRinderSays · 24/02/2015 09:20

Define what you mean by 'calling them devil children'

countessmarkyabitch · 24/02/2015 09:22

There is a HUGE difference betwee telling teens that nothing is their fault (which would be idiotic) and saying they don't have the same level of responsibility as grown adults (which is a legal, social and biological fact)

So a woman married to a rapist is just as bad as he is, yeah? So all the english men who rape or murder, you'd happily jail their wives? No, didn;t think so, just the muslims you want to do that to.

countessmarkyabitch · 24/02/2015 09:25

I seriously can not get my head round this.

Save them, give them another chance they are only teenage girls brainwashed, how have committed themselves to a terrorist regime. A regime that insights hate and violence. That will kill an incalculable amount of people, via torture, bombing, mass murder, kidnap, hijack, massacre.

2 ten year old boys kidnap and kill a 5 year old boy. Hang the devil children'!!'!!

Original poster
adsy · 24/02/2015 09:27

ghosty the authorities, who I assume have forensically examined their computers are fairly convinced that they have been in direct contact with members of ISIS, are on 70 pro ISIS websites, and have gone over to joint hem.
if they had found evidence that they were going on holiday I'm sure that would have come out.
Are you really that naiive or are you desperately trying to excuse these potential terrorists?

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Original poster
adsy · 24/02/2015 09:30

countess the women who know their husbands are murderers or rapists, yes they are just as bad. Remember Maxine Carr? I didn't think she was muslim yet she was vilified. I might be remembering wrongly though

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Original poster
adsy · 24/02/2015 09:33

It's not a legal fact they don't have the responsibility. They are way above the legal age of responsibility

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Original poster
adsy · 24/02/2015 09:35

reports that ISIS have kidnapped 90 Christians today. Poor misunderstood ISIS. If only they had some nice young women to keep them company.
bet the families of those 90 are understanding of people who join the group

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countessmarkyabitch · 24/02/2015 09:36

Another bad example. She was convicted of perverting the course of justice and providing a false alibi. She was cleared of assisting an offender.
And I'm pretty sure she wasn't a child at the time.

POTENTIAL terrorists. We don't charge anyone, let alone children, for what they might do. Why are you finding that so difficult to understand?

Original poster
adsy · 24/02/2015 09:36

gone over to join them, not joint them ( though jointing them would be a noble cause)

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WannaBe · 24/02/2015 09:38

if these girls are charged it will be with terror offences not for marrying terrorists.

but yes, anyone who knowingly stays with, marries or sympathises with a rapist or murderer is just as bad as they are. Stop trying to turn this into a race issue, it isn't one.

There are plenty of posts on mn from people whose family members have knowingly stuck by abusers, paedophiles and the like and IMO they deserve all the contempt they get. In this country you are barred from working in certain jobs if you have connections with people who have committed violent crimes.

ghostyslovesheep · 24/02/2015 09:39

no - they have been contacting other people linked to isis and looking at pro isis information - that is all they know - facts rather than conjecture

the girls aren't married

Can you point to any post where people have used the term 'poor ISIS' - because again it seems you can't tell the difference between not wanting to condemn without facts and being pro ISIS

I know it's a useful device for you to deflect the argument to keep accusing people who don't agree with you of being in favour of all sorts of nasty things - but it's incorrect and makes you look a bit silly

countessmarkyabitch · 24/02/2015 09:40

Did I say specifically legal age of responsibiliity? Or did i say legally not responsible in the same way as adults?

Did these teenage girls kidnap anyone this week? So what is the relevance?

You lump in everyone together, everyone is a terrorist, everyone is evil. You have no understanding of actual facts. It's a very good job that no matter your opinion, you have nothing to do with the legal system or the matters at hand.

Original poster
adsy · 24/02/2015 09:42

IF they have joined ISIS then they should be charged with associating with a proscribed terrorist group which IS against the law. It's the same as assisting an offender but was brought in to be specific re. terrorists with greater sentencing powers.
That's also not difficult to understand. No one is saying charge them if they are just in Turkey on holiday, but you would be incredibly blinkered to think that is the case. If they are in Syria and If they come back they should be charged. I don't think anyone has said charge them just for leaving the country ( apart from the one travelling on someone elses passport)

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