Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think they should charge the Syria girls

999 replies

adsy · 21/02/2015 08:14

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

OP posts:
Sallyingforth · 25/02/2015 10:37

No thanks Pangurban. We don't want them back!

The last thing we need is three girls reluctantly dragged home who are angry, determined for revenge, and need monitoring for life.

We all have to live with our choices, even 15- and 16- year olds.

It's tough for their families, but there is a far bigger picture here. Maybe, just maybe, it will cause some other families to look at their own children a little more carefully.

Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 10:52

I don't think the OP title is now a moot point.
Do people now think they should be prosecuted if they return to Britain?
It does beg the question of what the hell would we do with them? monitor them and their associates for life? Lifetime internment?
They can't be let free but after a term in prison they're going to be even more determined to exact revenge for their imagined misfortune.
I bet the authorities are hoping they just disappear, never to be seen again.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 25/02/2015 10:56

I think if they are forcibly returned to the UK that could cause trouble in the future if they still have sympathies with Isis. I don't know what the answer is. But I don't think if they're returned by force to their families that all will be well. Fine if they decide they have made a mistake but otherwise the thought is quite frightening. Unless they come to their senses. I think they should be left where they are. The families can go out there and talk to them.

Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 11:11

If their parents went out to them, then they'd be breaking the law by meeting with known terrorist members. they'd be arrested on their return. All a bit of a mess really

OP posts:
DoraGora · 25/02/2015 11:29

They've already disappeared, so that bit's taken care of. The arrest of the parents, rather like the taxi driver cousin of the jihadi who faked his own death, was on account of assisting an offender. If these girls haven't offended (speaking legally that is!!!) then, neither they nor their parents would be arrested.

Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 11:32

But they have offended if they're with ISIS

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 25/02/2015 11:36

But as it stands these girls have travelled to Syria. They are not known to have taken part in any illegal activities. So if the parents went to speak to them now they aren't committing a crime. And it's not illegal to visit a person even if they had committed a crime. So I don't agree with that argument.

DoraGora · 25/02/2015 11:37

Youths have returned, like one I posted a while ago. He was not charged with anything. I'm sure what he actually did was more than get married.

Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 11:39

Have you got a link Dora? I didn't think anyone had come back who'd been directly involved.

OP posts:
Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 11:40

And it's not illegal to visit a person even if they had committed a crime
it is to visit a member of a proscribed terrorist group.
It was part of the new anti terror laws that came in last year.

OP posts:
DoraGora · 25/02/2015 11:41

I think the current line is you can come back as long as you cooperate with the intelligence services. No doubt some people will get punished too, like the son of one mother who did cooperate and he got twelve years, (or some such.) His mother is furious. So, it looks like a case by case basis. And that's even for males.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 25/02/2015 11:44

The last thing we need is three girls reluctantly dragged home who are angry, determined for revenge, and need monitoring for life. We all have to live with our choices, even 15- and 16- year olds. It's tough for their families, but there is a far bigger picture here. Maybe, just maybe, it will cause some other families to look at their own children a little more carefully

Absolutely spot on with every single word ... yes it's probably difficult for the families, but the safety of the vast majority is more important than that

Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 11:47

Jesus Dora that's a scary article. Over 300 believed to have returned?!
TBH I'm amazed we're not having a major event every week.

OP posts:
DoraGora · 25/02/2015 11:48

I think quite a few have returned. Tareena Shakil has been arrested and is now on bail.

Viviennemary · 25/02/2015 11:54

I didn't know it was illegal to visit a member of a known terrorist group. So thanks for that information. But these girls aren't members of Isis yet I wouldn't think. If I was those parents I'd be wanting to visit. But perhaps they've been advised against it.

Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 11:58

I'm sort of assuming that if they marry one of them and support them in their terrorism, then they are members of ISIS. I doubt they have an official membership list and cards!
I think you're right that the parents have been advised against going. It would be a massive security risk for them

OP posts:
Moonatic · 25/02/2015 12:06

"If I was those parents I'd be wanting to visit. But perhaps they've been advised against it."

Quite right, they probably have been advised against visiting a war zone where just about anyone can be summarily executed for.... well, just about anything, really.

JudgeRinderSays · 25/02/2015 12:47

There are many hundreds of terrorists plots foiled every year.it's no wonder there are so many attempts really if known jihadists are walking in our midst.

DoraGora · 25/02/2015 13:20

I think it's the walking around that's the problem. At the moment, you can't arrest someone for thinking jihadists thoughts. It's the doing that's illegal. The problem for Daily Mail readers is the law, really. If you didn't have jurisdiction, evidence, probable cause and heaven knows what else to worry about, you could arrest and charge anybody that you didn't like and put them in prison. I guess you still can. They just don't call it democracy.

QueenTilly · 25/02/2015 13:25

I agree with basically every word Eve has said.

For me, it's not that I think they're on a sightseeing trip. I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude the girls want to join ISIS. I just doubt that the recruitment process was very truthful about what that means. I'm thinking that the advertising seems to target their audiences, and they get more schoolgirls when they leave out the torture, murder, rape and out-and-out barbarism. I think it's quite possible they are going there without any true understanding of what their "dream men" do all day. I think it's all very updated Arthurian legend in their heads. Sort of Muslim Lancelots: chivalric, devout, noble warriors who would always treat a modest lady with respect and awe, and protect her from evil foes who would besmirch her honour.

They may have intended to join ISIS, but they may not actually intend to assist with rape, torture, murder, due to being too deluded to acknowledge that is what ISIS does. Well, they're going to find out now.

MalibuStacy · 25/02/2015 13:31

I'm thinking that the advertising seems to target their audiences, and they get more schoolgirls when they leave out the torture, murder, rape and out-and-out barbarism.

But everyone knows what ISIS are like; the girls couldn't possibly not know.

Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 13:35

I refuse to believe they don't know what ISIS do. Especially as they were sharing videos of beheadings. I'd say it was more they were enjoying the violence

OP posts:
Original poster
adsy · 25/02/2015 13:38

dora can we give it a rest with the daily mail comments. It's really not clever or humerous or witty or whatever people think it is when they trot out the DM line. It's just getting tiresome

OP posts:
Sallyingforth · 25/02/2015 13:39

I'd say it was more they were enjoying the violence

No, I don't suppose they enjoy the violence. But they have been taught that it is an appropriate way to deal with (ISIS's narrow vision of) unbelievers. Just as you might stamp on an unpleasant weed.