to think they should charge the Syria girls

[adsy]

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

Its like gang mentality. We can't imagine why anyone (man or woman) would have joined the Mason Family, but some did.

There are those who seek violence, idealists, sheep and bloody idiots. How can you tell the motives behind joining a violent group?

If they return who can say for sure they knew what they were signing up for, whether any remorse/regret is genuine, if they still harbour hatred for you and me and would happily see us all dead, or if they are 'sleepers' sent back to wreak havoc?

An ex colleague works with refugees who have said that they have seen fighting, war, death etc first hand. Some haven't, but lots have (some have watched their famies drown trying to get to Europe). It is hard to predict what someone traumatised will do/think today, tomorrow, next week or in ten years time. They can't unseen what they saw. The fear and anger will be there.

It's costing money chasing after these silly silly girls

'silly' isn't the word I would use.'Evil' maybe 'warped', 'sick' perhaps.
Really sick of the terrorism apologists on here!

Myra Hindley was only a year older- there wasn't much sympathy for her aiding and abetting a murdere.
The bulger killers were little boys of 10!
mary Bell the double murderer was 10 too. Do you just regard them as nothing more than 'silly'

I'd like to hear more about conference's report that a girl had been following a sick website, before pulling out my hate adjectives. If the report is true, and the girls had indeed glorified in violence, then I'd think naive wasn't their only fault.

Can somebody link me, please?

Somebody who participates in a murder, even if it's watching the door or waiting in the car, is still guilty of murder. But, nobody is ever tried for simply being the wife of a criminal (unless she participated in the crimes).

I've asked a few times if the aoplogists feel sorry for Rose West as she was only 16 when she met Fred. By all accounts she was the more perverse and sadistic of the 2. I want to know if she deserves sympathy as she must have been brainwashed and her innate sweet nature corrupted, but so far none of the apologists have answered.
I also want to know if we should feel sorry for Fred himself. he had an awful upbringing . Poor Fred, should we have maybe just given him counselling?

doragora they would be tried they had knowledge are there husbands crimes

Of their husbands crimes

erm - these 3 children have gone to Turkey

these are the facts as we know them

so maybe stop comparing them to child killers just yet

Couldn't believe the community speaker woman on ITV this morning saying its somehow a security failure!? How could they practically stop people going their of their own volition?

I find it very hard to believe that there is no one at all in their community that had some sort of influence or hint?

I hope they are on beach doing jaeger-bombs rather than heading to Syria for real ones.

If they lied to the police and were found to be lying, then yes. They would be charged with perverting the course of justice. But, if they weren't interviewed or told the truth, then they wouldn't be.

(There are other crimes such as assisting an offender, to do with knowing that someone has committed a particular crime and helping to conceal evidence or the criminal. Those are both crimes to do with what a person did, not what she knew.)

Knowing that someone is a criminal, per se, is not a crime.

JudgeRinder if you can't see something has gone very badly wrong in the life of a child that kills another child, then you aren't looking very hard. Nobody thinks those children should have been let off with a telling-off and a cupcake, either. But either you try to work out how to prevent this, or you doom yourself to locking these children up forever, and not being able to keep potential future victims safe, too.

You can call people who look for an alternative approach "terrorism apologists" all you like, but the reality is that a hang 'em and flog 'em approach does nothing to make us safer. You can sit there in your purity and condemn these girls all you like, but it won't make the world a better place. I'd like to find a way to make sure no more girls (or boys) are groomed into thinking this is in any way a good thing for them to do.

adsy drop the straw men, please. Fred West and Rose West were adults committing crimes.

actually I find the number of terrorist apologists on here not only sickening but terrifying. you are the ones who will be campaigning for the freedom of these poor deluded "children," the ones who will welcome them back into our society, the ones who excuse their behavior on the basis that they must have been brainwashed, must have been groomed. And what then? what then when you have welcomed these terrorists back into our society? how will you know where they are? who they are? until one of them pops up next to you on a train, a bus, a plane, with a bomb?

It is attitudes like "they are poor, silly girls," that puts all of us at risk of organisations like IS. I believe Rose west was only eighteen when she started abusing others. Harold shipman not much older, poor sily deluded harold shipman, poor poor poor rose west. such victims they were.... err I think not.

At least one of the girls had been in touch with another Brit who had left the UK a year ago to become a gehadi bride, this is clearly printed on the bbc.

stop bloody excusing the behaviors of terrorists and wake up to the fact that they and their ilk are around us. were at school probably with at least one mumsnetter's children. the fact that nobody had an inkling of what they were planning is chilling. And they were here. watching beheadings and imagining the glorious life that would bring. and all the while they were socialising with your children..

But yeah, keep the violins playing eh.

archery but the apologists are saying that young women join these terrorist groups because they have been brainwashed by them and it's therefore not of their own free will. It's a direct comparison the Rose west who met fred at 16. was she also brainwashed and therefore deserving of sympathy? If not, what's the difference?

Screaming and wailing, while waiving the Daily Mail, isn't going to make us any safer either. The courts have to use the law. Daily Mail articles don't go far at the Old Bailey.

jesus Wannabe your world must be a dark and scary place :(

I wish people could grasp the idea that trying to understand something is not the same as 'apologising' for it

just to add some balance ... 95.6% of the UK is NOT muslim - keep calm and get a grip

the ones who excuse their behavior

I haven't excused anyone's behaviour. I want their behavior to stop. I don't want any more girls copying their behaviour. This will only happen when we understand where their behaviour comes from. And when we apply the accumulated experience we have as a nation in tackling terrorism (sometimes successfully, sometimes abysmally badly).

But you go on sitting on your purity throne, WannaBe. You won't make any of us an inch safer, but you will be so proud of yourself, and that's what matters, eh?

Rose West was a murderer. These girls have just crossed a border. Crossing a border isn't a crime. That's the difference.

these girls have obviously not grown up in an oppressive muslim lifestyle, they were all free to come and go as they pleased, one even said she was going off to a wedding, and none of her family saught to question that? at fifteen? Can you imagine the general ibu post "ibu, my dd who is fifteen has said she's going to a wedding, we don't know where or whose wedding, ibu to let her go anyway

Going to a wedding was the perfect/is the perfect excuse for them. They are generally very large communal affairs and you don't have to know the bride and groom to attend the wedding. So to just go along to a wedding is acceptable and of course the girls knew they wouldn't be caught out when asked did you see so and so there because by then they were far and away.

Going to a wedding is considered a safe pastime and when someone chastised my husband once for letting one of my daughters boyfriend come to the house and for them to go our together he said - well at least I know when she says she's going to a wedding at the weekend she is.

The only thing that surprised me about the wedding aspect of it was that I understand they left home in the morning and wedding aren't held in the morning so???? That and the fact one of the mums put one of the girls on the bus to school. So it is quite confusing.

there is no difference. but because the wests murdered people here in Britain it's a bit more familliar. IS is still a whole lifestyle away from where we are, so imagining someone wanting to join IS is a whole different scenario which people can't imagine, can't identify with, and as such can easily talk down as something that people must surely be brainwashed into.

But wanting to understand is just a short step away from going there, IMO. if an adult wants to understand then that adult's child might equally want to understand, and as such befriend such children as the girls who have now gone to Turkey (they are not the first), and then they get drawn into discussion of why it is right, and then sympathy develops, and then, and then.

Do bear in mind that the people these girls and others before them have been communicating with will happily see you and your children dead. beheaded live on video for all to see.

/And there is a vast difference between not wanting others to follow the same path and sympathising with those who have already gone there.

Dora do please try to be a bit more original than reasoning that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a Daily Mail reader therefore you are intellectually and morally superior.
So, should fred and Rose West have been treated with sympathy in recognition that they had a tough upbringing or were brainwashed by the other one?
Should our reaction to the torture and horror have been to try and understand and help the Wests rather than revusion, anger and overwhelming sadness for the victims and their families?

dora if ( as seems very very likely) they have gone over to join IS then they have committed a crime.

if you knew of your husband intention to commit a murder you would be an accessory before the fact