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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think they should charge the Syria girls

999 replies

adsy · 21/02/2015 08:14

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

OP posts:
countessmarkyabitch · 23/02/2015 10:54

Wannabee, all those scary muslims, all around you, hey? Under the bed, behind every door, in your childs school!! You're paranoid. You're terrified and lashing out.
Put down the tabloids, switch off the internet, and do some yoga or something. It's a really unhealthy place you're in.
And we're not going to start arresting children to make you feel better.

SwirlyThingAlert · 23/02/2015 10:56

This debate was on the Wright Stuff this morning with this thread flashed up on screen.
Saw Adsy's name on there and a couple of others. Smile

ghostyslovesheep · 23/02/2015 10:57

yes Adsy IF they have gone over with the intention of going to Syria and joining ISIS they have committed a crime

as far as I know though they have not raped and killed children Hmm

DoraGora · 23/02/2015 10:58

Yes, you would be. But, if you knew your husband was a murderer, and nothing about his future intentions you wouldn't be one.

I agree with the main thrust of your point, though, which is that it is preferable to neither be a criminal nor to consort with one.

Weebirdie · 23/02/2015 11:01

I'd like to hear more about conference's report that a girl had been following a sick website, before pulling out my hate adjectives. If the report is true, and the girls had indeed glorified in violence, then I'd think naive wasn't their only fault.

I heard it on sky news, and you only have to google it.

Also, the family of the Scottish girl who ran away months ago has issued a statement saying they are sorry for her part in things following the recent disclosure there has been contact between her and one of the girls.

ArcheryAnnie · 23/02/2015 11:02

adsy there's a difference between understanding where someone's behaviour comes from, and condoning it. (And there's a hell of a difference between 15 and 18, too - and if I remember right, Rose started committing crimes at 18.)

And another difference is, both Fred and Rose would have known their behaviour was wrong, and did it anyway. These teenagers have been told they are doing something righteous which will improve the world, and there will be casualties and atrocities, but that's God's plan - much in the same way as teenagers (and adults) have been lured to war for centuries. I think if you have no understanding what that kind of religious justification involves, then yes, it's impossible to understand. But it's necessary to understand where it comes from if we have any hope of tackling it, and stopping it at source.

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 11:06

ghosty they've been watching videos of beheadings and I think if they have joined ISIS they are complicit in the act of murder and rape.
let's try another AIBU shall we?
AIBU I've found out clear evidence that my husband has been raping and murdering young girls. Should I LTB or should I just carry on with a happy marriage as if nothing has happened?

OP posts:
WannaBe · 23/02/2015 11:10

actually, there is no all these muslims though. It takes just one terrorist to change the lives of millions of people.

There were just four suicide bombers on 7/7 just four planes on 9/11, only two that brought down the wtc. just a handful of terrorists.

it is naive to think that there aren't terrorism plots against western targets being planned all the time, that's why people are constantly being arrested on terrorism charges.

Do I live in fear of terrorism, no, because then the terrorists have won, and fearing it isn't going to stop it happening. But if people are willingly travelling abroad to join terrorist organisations then I certainly don't want them back in our country free to wander at large. nobody should want that. We may not want others to follow the same path, but we shouldn't be wanting those that have to come back here either.

If these girls have gone to join isis then they have chosen their fate, whatever that is.

RandomNPC · 23/02/2015 11:10

Echoes of the Children's Crusade of 1212. Likely to end in the same way too.

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 11:12

These girls know that what ISIS is doing is wrong. no matter what the ideology, nobody thinks that burning people alive or beheading them is a anything other than barbarous.
Rose was 16 when she met him. I'll ask for the last time before I give up. Does she deserve sympathy as she was obviously brainwashed ( according to the apologists on here who say how easy it is to turn a pretty young head) or was she responsible for her own actions?

OP posts:
ghostyslovesheep · 23/02/2015 11:14

yes but Adsy all they have actually done is got a plain to Turkey - so maybe dial back the hyperbole a little eh?

countessmarkyabitch · 23/02/2015 11:19

How does it feel to be on the far right of the DM comments section? I'd be scrubbing myself with bleach, but y'all seem comfortable with it.

nochocolateforlentteacake · 23/02/2015 11:21

What if they were 20, or mothers dragging their kids along with them? What if they had low IQs, came from broken homes or had been abused?

These young women, their famies and friends, community and schools all need to have a bloody hard look at themselves.

There is always a reason for behaviour but we can't excuse and not blame people for their own actions.

ArcheryAnnie · 23/02/2015 11:22

But they aren't 20.

DoraGora · 23/02/2015 11:22

In response to the question should I support a rapist of a husband, I'd say ask Sir Thomas Moore's wife. His family seemed happy to support him after he'd turned the family home into a torture chamber. The pope even made him a saint.

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 11:23

Wtf is it with Daily Mail? Did somebody say it many moons ago on MN and people since then have thought it's the cleverest, wittiest winner of any debate? FWIW , no I'm not a Daily mail reader but please think of something new to say.
And ghosty I'm guessing the authorities are pretty certain they've not gone on a beach holiday to Turkey as they seem to be throwing rather a lot of resources at the matter.

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ghostyslovesheep · 23/02/2015 11:26

yes Adsy but these children haven't actually be found guilty of anything at this time have they

so comparing them to child rapists and murderers is stupid really

WannaBe · 23/02/2015 11:26

actually, we don't know that. nobody actually knows whether they have yet crossed the border into Syria. given they flew to Turkey on Tuesday I would imagine it's likely.

But even if we take these particular girls out of the equation, they're not the first. according to the bbc around 60 women and girls have gone to Syria to join IS, there are now whole expat networks to help newcomers settle in. these are men and women from western countries. They know that beheading people is wrong and they still go.

Rose west actually grew up in a life of incest and abuse. She had every conditioning to believe that it was normal. but that doesn't excuse her actions but it probably does go some way towards explaining them. It doesn't seem these girls had anything less than a normal upbringing. and their conversion was obviously much shorter than that of rose west...

Of course there are comparisons. murder is wrong. if you go abroad to marry a murderer then your actions are morally reprehensible at best. If you support what that murderer is doing then you are complicit.

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 11:27

Dora the Thomas More from henry viii time?
So you are saying you would support a murderous husband? Based on religious bigotry from the 15th century? I don't understand..

OP posts:
Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 11:28

If they want to marry child rapists and murderers then yes, I do compare them to such people Why wouldn't I Confused

OP posts:
ghostyslovesheep · 23/02/2015 11:28

have they got married then? or is that just more speculation ...

ReallyTired · 23/02/2015 11:33

I not read this thread. I don't think that threatening the girls with punishments is helping. The girsl and their families need support rather than condemation.

As far as I can see a bunch of teens have got involved in a cult. Its not much different to being inducted into the Moonies, or Wako or some other mad christian cult. I feel that the girls should recieve pychological support in a secure unit rather than punishment IF they choose to return home. Only people who have actually committed attrocities should be punished. Running off to Syria against your parents' wishes is not a crime even if it does cause the parents terrible stress. There is no evidence to suggest that the girls are murderous jihadis.

I find it shocking that minor is able to get on an aeroplane without being stopped. I feel that unaccompanied minors should have permission from their parents before being allowed to board an aircraft to take a train to boat to a different country.

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 11:34

well that's what the authorities believe they have gone over for and they have been in direct contact with their school friend who went over last year to marry one so I think it's a pretty fair bet that that's their intention.

OP posts:
WannaBe · 23/02/2015 11:36

what exactly is it the people who are saying "all they've done is gone to turkey," think has happened to them then?

It is known that they have been on gehadi websites. it is known they have had contact with another Western girl who went out there a year ago to become a Gehadi bride who is known for recruiting westerners and who has already had one twitter account deleted.

The authorities are pretty sure they've gone out there to join IS, this isn't daily mail speculation, for the poster who seems to think it might be, this is reality.

DoraGora · 23/02/2015 11:36

Since we're having a discussion about behaviour prompted by religious bigotry inspired by Muhammad's followers from the 7thC to today, yes. I'd say Thomas Moore was an apt example. And his canonisation was in 1935.