To be surprised at how little STBX will have to pay

[Stardustnight]

STBX is on a very good salary indeed and his living costs are low.

Despite this, according to the CSA calculator he will only have to pay £800 a month for 3 children, which compared to the amount of money he actually has, isn't a lot - £200 a week.

Am I being unreasonable to be feeling mildly disgruntled and short changed? Or am I grabby and entitled ?

put it this way, if a couple experienced financial difficulty, there would be an expectation that standards of living dropped. But somehow, the expectation is that when a couple separate, the higher earner or man (not always the same thing, I acknowledge) takes responsibility for maintaining the children's standard of living without any input from the other parent. And if that standard of living isn't maintained, it's somehow one parent's fault and not the other. The fact is whatever money there is has to go across two households, not one.

Yes, I get one partner having £3000 in hand whilst the other has £1400 in hand is unfair. The OP isn't working. If she was, there would more than likely be the same amount of money in her household. Why should her ex have to make up the difference? (Again, I get the pregnancy complicates issues blah, blah, blah). 3 children with no childcare costs and no mortgage costs do not cost £800 a month. Why should the ex alone be responsible for the children's standard of living and not the OP?

There's far too much of the attitude of "I managed and so should you" on here

the reality is, the OP will have to manage.

The solution is educating and empowering women somehow not to land themselves with these selfish twats in the first place.

You outlined the problems very well but the solution is not to excuse a NRP financial support. The money is for the children not a luxury lifestyle for the ex wife or ex partner. If anything the financial support should become a whole lot less personal and much more expected that it is - more garnishing of salaries, more automatic assumptions about support not a defeatist attitude that it is OK for OP's ex to live on 80% of the family's income alone whilst his children are left with 20% just because it is easier not to fight over it

At no point have I said it is OK not to pay maintenance, or even that 15/20/25% of an NRP's salary is 'enough'. There needs to be massive shift in how we, as a society, view separated parents and the expectations we place upon them. The answer for me as financial independence because a controlling, abusive ex no longer has any power over me. I don't accept my ex doesn't pay maintenance, I get angry about it, I have a season ticket seat at the CSA believe me. But going on and on and on and on about how unfair it is wouldn't help me get on with my life, would it?

See, on the one hand fedup you are arguing that of course it's all grossly unfair so the sooner the op accepts that the better but now you seem to be saying a working father should not be responsible for minimising the financial damage to his children.

Which is it?

But she's not 3 yrs down the line moaning about it, it's happened recently, she looked into what she's entitled to and is venting now that it seems unfair.

Re the original question, were asking why is it grabby and no one has given an explanation of why she is grabby.

Just because you had to struggle doesn't mean the op should or future generations of women.

The amount that would have to be paid to cover childcare for all 3 DC would likely exceed the amount paid in maintenance - thats the issue IMO and why this situation is so unfair. The contribution the OP has made & will continue to make is not recognised & not valued & if childcare costs were included in the amount an NRP had to contribute towards to cost of supporting their own DC, it would come closer to evening out the financial burden when it comes to supporting DC after separation. If the Op's ex had residency & had to pay for childcare to continue to earn £4k a month, he'd not be in the fortunate position to have so much spare cash after bills & meeting all 3 DC's needs financially.

£800 for 3 DC would be about enough to meet their basic needs but still leaves the OP very restricted in being able to earn for herself. The OP's needs are not even in the picture here - she should simply sacrifice any want/desire/need for the sake of being able to adequately meet her DC's needs from that £800, and 'be grateful' she gets so much.

The point is, in setting maintenance at the amount of £800 for 3 DC, it leaves the quality of life the OP has, significantly lower than that of her ex. She's boxed in by childcare costs when it comes to being able to work & even with 70% from tax credits (which isn't guaranteed here, as its dependent on how HMRC view her property ownership, rental income & assets), she's still not going to get close to earning anywhere near her ex's level & will be hampered in the type of work/career options because she's the sole carer to all 3 children.

There is nothing in what the OP has said that indicates she wants to maintain a life of luxury or indulge in her expensive hobbies. It's pretty fucking obvious where the OP's anxiety & worry stems from yet she's had all manor of shit thrown at her on this thread. Bloody disgraceful but so bloody typical of AIBU.

You say OP makes "no input" to the money that comes to the family unit including her ex but providing childcare round the clock is the same contribution as bringing in a fulltime wage - in the sense that if she didn't do this, someone else would need to be paid a lot of money to do it instead

It is more than likely the OP will be awarded spousal maintenance. This will even things up for her.

And don't forget she gave up work because he wouldn't let her work.

Bullshit pickled. It just goes to show that some people do not read the thread properly. I thought maybe I was wrong so double checked the ages very quickly, it has been said several times the ages of the children.

I am absolutely gob smacked at people saying £800 is enough to support 3 kids a month

£120 council tax
£100 gas and elec
£40 water
£30 phone and broadband
£10 mobile
£??? On any pets?
£150 average on petrol/car upkeep/mot
£40 on house and car insurance

That's already £500 a month before any food, activities, clothes, house maintenance, so really, really do people genuinely think £800 is enough?

And when the Op needs to replace an ancient car or house roof or any other crap that pops up, how is she supposed to do that? Or has she managed to put savings away too out of this bounteous £800 a month?

But kits mummy others have done it so what can't she - oh yes she shouldn't have to because her twat of a stbx should be contributing to ensure that the children don't suffer

The answer for me as financial independence because a controlling, abusive ex no longer has any power over me.

That may have been the answer for you but it doesn't mean that it is the answer for everyone.

I don't accept my ex doesn't pay maintenance, I get angry about it, I have a season ticket seat at the CSA believe me. But going on and on and on and on about how unfair it is wouldn't help me get on with my life, would it?

You don't know that the OP is going to go on and on about it in the future and not get on with her life. I used to feel angry about the fact that I have a chronic disabling disease. I came to terms with it and have got on with my life but that doesn't mean that I think that people who have just been diagnosed should stop complaining and just get on with it. People have the right to complain if something is unfair. It doesn't mean that they won't come to terms with it or get on with their life and telling them to do so when they are in the initial stages of their grief is really not helpful whether or not anything can be done about it.

Well exactly spadequeen, it's not really the point of the argument but it does piss me off when people insist that £800 is plenty. No it is bloody not!

I bet most of the people who "got over it" hadn't managed that a week after ending their marriage.

Kitsmummy the OP has an extra £600 coming in a month, so that would cover the costs you have laid out. The £800 is left to spend on the children.

I gave to say, for all the kicking I've taken from some, I don't for a moment regret starting this thread. There has been some BRILLIANT practical advice, and endless emotional support.

Put it this way - I don't feel alone.

At any rate, I will admit, somewhat sheepishly, to not being the best with money and I've never had the opportunity to learn. I had to be sneaky with money, in the past and constantly had to lie.

But it is getting frustrating being presented as some sort of pampered little madam who sat at home smirking while my husband went out to work. I am a qualified teacher and I worked right up until 2011, when DS was 4. At that time, my Dad had just died. I have to admit I was distracted and looking back it's easy to see DH really manipulated me over that period and got talked very easily into 'you've got enough on, you've got this inheritance, you don't NEED to work.'

I also had a friend, a good friend, who was pretty concerned with the DH situation and tried to step in for me. It's a long story and I made mistakes as well but anyway we ended up moving back to my home town which DH conceded "on the condition that." And there was a long list of conditions. On the condition that you don't work, as DS needs to settle into school and you need to make friends." That sounded fair, until he disliked any friend I made, and took my car away (well you don't need it, do you.) At first it was only meant to be for a year but then "it was working so well" - of course what he meant was that it was working well for HIM. Which would have been fine if he'd treated me with respect and valued the contribution I was making.

And so the months go by and the years and then pregnant again and then baby girl arrived last spring and all along there's this terrible underbelly of sadness and hurt.

DH was always sweet, kind and attentive if I did exactly what he wanted. I couldn't call my life my own, and in return I had him. I thought for too long he was worth having as my children's father but he just isn't. I have barely scratched the surface of what went on in the paragraph above, by the way. He just kept getting worse.

In short, I believe I was tricked and manipulated into giving up my source of income and independence. DH likes money - or rather, he likes power. He likes control. He never wanted my financial contribution. Ever. And he won't want it now. I don't care, as far as I'm concerned, what happens - but why the HELL should my son have to stop learning to play the instruments he is talented at and give him a sense of well being and pride? Why should he have his social life put on hold because I've no car and can't afford to run one?

The above would be different if his father - the man who helped make him - was not taking home 3k a month

Hopefully DD and Dc3 can learn music, dance, whatever they want.

Oh yeah and we have about a zillion furry and feathered friends here as well. They aren't going anywhere fear not. If DD cries again I will exchange her for another chicken (joke!)

*have to say; sorry, random iPad typo.

And I bet that lots of people preaching about" financial independence " don't have two children under 2 . If so id love to know what job they do that pays for f/t childcare for two babies and out of school care for an 8 year old and still leaves them enough money to live comfortably , say £3,00 per month .

And I bet that most of the posters who boast they are " independent " actually mean

" I am dependent on other tax payers to pay CTC to support my kids rather than my ex " .

Or " I am dependent on my family to provide free childcare while I work " .

And I bet that most of the posters preaching about how women shouldn't live off men are the same ones who complain that benefit levels are too high . So whats the solution ? Men shouldnt pay for their own children . Tax payers shouldn't pay for the children of feckless men . So do we let them starve ??

The thing is that the system that we have now(whilst by no means perfect, in fact far from it) is better than what we had before.

Yes the OP's situation is unfair but when this system was first brought in the NRPs that where easy targets got screwed over by it, (one of my friends committed suicide and another had a nervous breakdown).

Even then it was better than being forced to go to court which very few women could do.

A system needs to be set up so that it is fairer to all involved (this includes NRPs whose exes have gone on to move in with high earning partners or deliberately stopped working). Someone upthread mentioned increasing % as people earn more this seems a better way of doing this.

I haven't read everything (bad form I know, but 700 posts would take me a very long time.
Perhaps somebody who has followed it can bring me up to date:
Is the £800 for OPs current two children and will she get more when the third one is born (Im sure I read she is currently pregnant with the third one).
Why is she not entitled to tax credits?
Is she getting £195 from a property she rents out?
Is she entitled to council tax discount as she is not employed?

Sorry, my post was in response to I love sooty, rather than the OP